What to do...

[Novac]

So i am looking to start modding the laser, but i dont know where to start.
with the subie there were alot of bad ideas that i thought were good ideas.
i am not looking to compleatly build the engine, i want to get somwhere near 300hp. i was thinking of going to a Fmic, but like i said i am not sure if that is a good starting point. any reccomendations would be greatly appricitated:cool:

[spinz4]

Do you have the basics?

[Wazzelby]

Personally, I would start with a good tuneup. Check out the condition of the parts you plan on keeping and this will give you a good idea of where to start. If everything checks out mechanically then you can start with your basic mods: exhaust, intake, intercooler, fuel, etc.. You should be able to get pretty close to 300hp without too much work, just a good tune.

[matthewdesigns]

A nice place to see an actual list of mods is at www.dsmtuners.com . Scroll to the bottom of the homepage and look for a link to "upgrade paths", or something like that.

It's a very clear, concise list that, at least to me, makes sense. Perhaps the most important mod you'll ever hear recommended is to install a REAL boost gauge before you add a boost controller.

My first mods were a complete tune up w/ belts, h2o pump, seals, etc. and a turbo upgrade (Evo316G)...I know, a bit a** backwards, but my stocker died. Then I discovered the kind of parts that are available for these cars, and installed a new intake, boost gauge, and manual boost controller. A few months later I went for a larger side mount IC and all new hard pipe system with a new BOV. A logger was next, then a 3" DP/cat eliminator, and last weekend a fuel pump rewire kit. Now I've finally burned up my stock clutch (at 105K miles...not bad!), so I'm having Jack install an ACT 2100 kit, and while he's got it, install my new tubular o2 housing, and some 550cc injectors.

My goal is 300hp, too. Sounds relatively easy (and affordable) to achieve, and I think I'm getting close, though I've not dyno'd it yet. While I jumped around a bit in terms of the order of install, I've pretty much got all the parts for the "stage 1" upgrade path for 2G's I mentioned above, except for a catback exhaust. I'm pretty happy with the power my car is making now, even with no SAFC to tune it. That'll be next, after the larger injectors are in.

Matthew

[D Walker]

That "upgrade path" is simply a way for them to sell you parts you dont need. Examples:

-You do NOT need any exhuast manifold other than stock to hit 300+whp. In fact, you dont even need a 2G mani to get great performance.
-You do NOT need an O2 housing to hit 300+whp, in fact, you dont even need anything other than a stock ported unit to hit upwards of 450whp- ask Quinn, he used a massivley ported stock 02 housing until I smacked him and made him go Garrett.


All of the "upgrade paths" that people typically point to were written by parts sellers who want you to buy parts from them. There are so many options that the only way you figure out whats right for you is by research- and NOT simply asking blunt questions on a number of forums hoping some nutball out there will give you the super-secret answer on the path to horsepower enlightenment. READ threads pertaining to what you are wanting to do, and not just the first post where the guy who put his SAFC on if thrilled with it, read all the pages so you understand that by page 3 he was so sick of constantly diddling the thing to make his car run right he was seeking professional psychiatric help. EVERYONE always posts initially how great something is, you wont see where they had thier issues until later in the thread or even sometimes in another thread altogether.
All that said, here are my hard and fast rules for modding a car-
1>MOD YOUR OWN CAR- to hell with everyone elses. Only you can decide whats right for you, and what you can and cannot live with. Just because nutter#1 decides its ok to live with a car that spools at idle doesnt mean you will. Just because nutter#1 decided that he had the spare $$$ to put in a full fuel system doesnt mean you have to as well.
2>NEVER EVER buy parts that you will "outgrow" before your hit your goal. You have to be very realistic and honest with yourself BEFORE you ever buy parts as to what your goals are. It is a solid waste of time and money to go out and buy a POS SAFC and then turn around and sell it a couple months later because it wont do what you need it to do.
3>Settle on and buy your EMS first. No matter WHAT else you buy if the EMS wont do what it needs to do your screwed. Running on marginal EMS is a sure-fire way to need a new engine sooner than you thought
4>BUILD A BALANCED CAR!!! I cannot stress this enough! What good does it do you to have a monster turbo if your stock IC heatsoaks pulling out into traffic? Why have a fuel system capable of 600whp when your EMS sucks so bad you get a whopping 15mpg? Why have a huge FMIC when your IC pipes are the size of soda straws and built from ****ty exhuast pipe? Build a nice car that is in balance and you will have a lot more fun.
5>Avoid internet myths. You do not need a full fuel system for 400whp, you dont need an afpr with a walbro, 98% of the time you dont need to re-wire a wally, and 60% of the time the re-wires I have seen are a much greater fire risk than they are a benefit. You CAN easily make 350+whp or more with a high-flow cat, and if you use a metallic element one it wont die from the richer mixture turbos run. EGTs are a waste of time to tune a car, especially the gauges, since by the time they react your engine is toast, and 90% of the people who use them dont understand them anyway. A wideband is a much better choice. I could go on but these are some of my favorites...

[Cloud]

Well the problem usually is, you don't know what your goals actually are when you first start out. That's why a lot of the stuff in the upgrade path is actually kinda useful, because the stuff you do early on is usually pretty cheap. One thing I would do right from the start is upgrade fuel components with a lot of room and make sure you have something pretty decent to tune with or get a custom chip. I have upgraded my intercooler and injectors more than once, and at the time they were both good decisions because I was too poor to either get the right stuff to tune, or to get a decent fmic setup. It's a bit of a waste but not everyone can do it right the first time around even if they want to... or they can wait a really long time and do it right when they finally have enough money I guess, but that just makes it boring during the middle ;)

[drcustom]

I'm a big fan of starting with a nice exhaust...always makes a difference, and hearing it makes you at least think that you're on the right track ;)

An intake is nice, at least a hacked aircan and a k+n. If you're on a budget, I like to piece together an intercooler kit from junkyards. There's a ton of volvo's, saabs, audis, and other cars that have ~2 1/4" intake piping. It takes a while to get what you need, but if you're in no rush it's really cheap. I put together a complete front mount kit with hard piping from the turbo to the throttle body for about $40. The intercooler itself wouldn't handle above about 18psi (plastic end tanks) but it was an awesome setup. A supra SMIC is also a cheap alternative.

For 300hp, you could probably get away without any real serious fuel management. Personally I'd wait on fuel until you really need it, but I agree that if needed, you do it you should do it right (especially if you ever think you'll use e85).

You can get a 14b near 300hp, but it will be a lot easier to do that with a 16g.

I'd say start with the 'free mods' (and like someone said a boost controller) and then once you get it running really nice, go from there. Once you start doing a few little things, other aspects will make more sense.

[HisandHerTurbo]

-You do NOT need any exhuast manifold other than stock to hit 300+whp. In fact, you dont even need a 2G mani to get great performance.
-You do NOT need an O2 housing to hit 300+whp, in fact, you dont even need anything other than a stock ported unit to hit upwards of 450whp- ask Quinn, he used a massivley ported stock 02 housing until I smacked him and made him go Garrett


Very true, I have both stockers ported! and I think I am just a bit over 300hp. Speaking of "300hp" you also need to specify "which" 300hp, corrected, uncorrected, pump gas, race gas. I assume you mean AWHP (or WHP) and not just HP...... Flywheel. I mean, I think I have a lil more then what you looking for, but I "only" have around 360ish AWHP Corrected on pump gas.......lol

But Mr. Walker is right on....... bottom line, figure out exactly what you want, make sure what in there is in top notch shape....... get a boost gauge, then go from there.

[mrmegnum]

I'm going to completely agree with most of what has been said. My car I would consider lightly modded so far. The things I have felt the biggest difference with was my 3 inch exhaust, with stock o2. The intake wasn't too noticeable for me, but it might have been for others. Of course the boost gauge helps for many things. It has told me things such as the boost pressure, of course. It told me when one of my pipes split and when the occasional pop happens it shows a pipe has come off. I have an maft, but that is just due to me needing to buy a new maf anyway. Getting a better flowing fuel pump and turning up after I installed my 14b was the biggest difference. I know the 14b isn't an upgrade for you, but turning up the boost will make a notable difference. For boost controller, manual should work fine, it is just annoying to have to pop the hood every time you want to change it. I have a homemade one that I found off google and it works great. I have a 2g, but I hope this helps due to the similarity.

[matthewdesigns]

That "upgrade path" is simply a way for them to sell you parts you dont need.

Generally, I was merely pointing out that this is a nice, concise list of parts that one could obtain, and reasonably accurate as to what to think about. True, the site is a portal for a lot of vendors, but it's also a great resource.

And specifically, I bought a tubular o2 housing to help eliminate creep (I didn't feel like porting the stock housing), and I rewired my stock pump as step one in eliminating a fuel shortage. Since rewiring, I have not thrown a P0170 CEL (fuel trim malfunction), which at least in my case, seemed have taken care of the shortage. I would like to know about the increased risk of fire...that's something I've not read about before.

I do not blindly follow that list b/c it's the cool thing to do...I use it as a guide for what to consider in the future as I continue to want to turn up the boost ;)

[Novac]

wow thanks alot guys, when i asked on Nasoic about modding the subie most of the guys just added shrewed remarks basically telling me to figure it all out by myself. so thanks again. i just noticed today that i really do need belts on it so i am doing that saturday... still not sure where to start yet but you guys have definatly cleared some of the fog:D

[Steezy303]

Generally I recomend startin out with a good 3 inch exhaust. Its something that will do well with the 14b and threw many other "bigger" turbos. If you are serious with modd'ing your car, I would think about a fuel managment system of some type. If your into some sort of racing(drag, road, auto X, etc..) think about suspension aswell. For 300awhp, I would recomend an E316g. Also the "free mods" never hurt.

[Novac]

as far as the exahust goes, should i go ahead and save up and do turbo back or should i do just catback. maybe a high flow cat?

[HisandHerTurbo]

as far as the exahust goes, should i go ahead and save up and do turbo back or should i do just catback. maybe a high flow cat?

As far as the exhaust goes, get it all.......... the reason I say that. If you get a cat-back it will start off stock size then go bigger. Then when you get the down-pipe/cat they will do the same thing, so what you will end up with is (at least) 2 places where it goes back down to stock size. Some will say it won't make that big of difference, well any difference to me is a "big" difference, expecially when it can be avoided for about the same price in the end.

[mrmegnum]

Also depending on how long you have till emissions you can get a catless exhaust for pretty cheap compared to one with the good catalytic converter on it. I have a 3 inch downpipe and catback with no cat because I didn't have the $130 for the cat with the better material on the inside, so I'm going to get it put in next summer when I'm due for another test. Just an idea, and usually you can get 1g exhausts fairly cheap. Just check on Craigslist. Go all the way at once, it's easier and out of your hair that way.

[Novac]

i thought they did away with emissions.... i have a good connect through buds muffler here in town, but he wont install an exahust without a Cat:(

[matthewdesigns]

We don't have emissions down here in the Springs, but up in the Denver/Boulder area they still have to deal with it.

If you are ordering a catless exhaust to be installed, call Jack's Transmissions, our local DSM shop...on Mountview off North Nevada. He installed my catless dp. www.jackstransmissions.com

I drive by a place called Front Range Muffler every day (corner of Cascade/Platte downtown), and their sign today said "catbacks from $189"...might be worthwhile to see what they can do.

[Novac]

We don't have emissions down here in the Springs, but up in the Denver/Boulder area they still have to deal with it.

If you are ordering a catless exhaust to be installed, call Jack's Transmissions, our local DSM shop...on Mountview off North Nevada. He installed my catless dp. www.jackstransmissions.com

I drive by a place called Front Range Muffler every day (corner of Cascade/Platte downtown), and their sign today said "catbacks from $189"...might be worthwhile to see what they can do.

ah that makes sense:) is that jacks trans the one right next to 7-11? i wonder if that catback is for a 3", i got quoted 300 for 3" from buds:confused:

[mrmegnum]

Like I said before check up on craigslist for the exhaust. I've seen plenty of awd 1g exhausts up on there for pretty cheap. Also what i've found is that offroad shops are a bit more relaxed about exhausts with no cat, so check some of the offroad shops in your area and see what they'll do.

[Novac]

lol mine is fwd btw ;)

[mrmegnum]

Well I guess that'll be a bit more of a problem then. I don't see too many of those. Was that quote at bud's including the muffler and cat or just for the piping?

[Novac]

Well I guess that'll be a bit more of a problem then. I don't see too many of those. Was that quote at bud's including the muffler and cat or just for the piping?

i dont think it was for the cat to but it did include the muffler

[mrmegnum]

300 doesn't seem too bad to me, but i'm not sure what it usually is for a 1g. If you can try to pick up a 3 inch cat used and cheap and see if bud's will make a test pipe for the exhaust too for the "track" so you can just take the cat off after you take it home.

[D Walker]

I can help you- give me a call at the shop- 720-212-5838

[matthewdesigns]

ah that makes sense:) is that jacks trans the one right next to 7-11? i wonder if that catback is for a 3", i got quoted 300 for 3" from buds:confused:

Nope. Jack's Transmissions is a bit off the beaten path. Mountview and N. Nevada, go west on Mountview, turn right just past the Fedex depot (lots of auto repair shops in there), go to the end of the second building...last set of bays on the left.

And the muffler place does not have a 7-11 next to it, either. It's on the corner of Platte and Cascade, next door to a VFW hall. I called about the $189 catback, and it's for a 2.5" mild steel pressbent with a fart can. I think he said 3" goes up to $225, add a resonator for more $$, etc. And if you want a better/quieter muffler the price goes up, too.

Don't quote me on any of those numbers...my brain's kinda scrambled these days...I can't even remember what I had for dinner last night :o

[Novac]

lol yea i dont want anything loud, the muffler i have on there has already gotten me a ticket...no money just yet though so no rush

[matthewdesigns]

I stopped by Front Range Muffler today and asked about building a catback for my car. He wouldn't do it because my car has no cat, and I don't want one (though he said he'd sell me a 3" high flow for $179 :eek: ...way too expensive). I'm not even asking him to do anything with that part of the exhaust, but he said he'd have to put a cat on it if he touched it at all.

[biglady112]

I hate when they say that. Most of the time if you tell them you won't tell or offer cash they will do it anyway with no cat.

[D Walker]

Ok- Thats just the stupidest thing I have ever heard. It is a 25 THOUSAND dollar federal fine if an exhaust shop builds or installs a catless exhuast for you. They cant even WORK on your car if it doesnt have a cat on it without putting one on. Offering to slip the guy 20 bucks to do it anyway, especially if your someone who just drove up out of the blue is just plain idiotic, and could land your ass in a lot of trouble. The only way I have ever found a way you can get an exhuast shop to work on a car without a cat is to bring it to them on a trailer, with numbers on the side, and even then they may want a statement from you saying that it for off-road use only. If you got a muffler shop tech to do an exhaust minus cat then either:
He "knows" you and figures he can deny any involvement if you get caught
Hes dumb as a rock for endanger his shop, his job, and of course, his bank account.


In this day and age of high flow cats its just as stupid not to run one if your driving your car on the street. With a 3" metallic core hi-flow cat 98.9% of you will not experience any noticable power loss, your exhaust tone will be lower and deeper(much less risk of a ticket) and best of all you will be legal. In our shop a metallic element 3" cat cost $125, if you just want it welded in with no flanges, its about $75 in labor to TIG that bad boy right in. If you want it flanged so you can fit a "test pipe" each flange(304 SS Vibrant flanges, never leak) is extra, with a small increase in labor.

[Shane]

My car is registered in MN where they don't have emissions or inspections sooo i don't have a cat, but you are correct with all the advancements in technology these days cats are so efficient you can shine a light through them now. I guess what i am saying is buy a high flow cat epically with the Nazi'esk emissions there in Co.

[talonTSi]

I started with tha exhaust, I got a Apexi N1, i think it is hella sweet i love it and it sounds sweet!!