Road Course Requirements

[ricehunter]

Hey,

I wanted to hit the road course (PMI) some time in the spring, and I was wondering what all it takes to run there. I was wondering if I need a license from NASA or SCCA to be able to race down there or if it’s kind of like the T&Ts where I can just drive in, strap on a helmet and take off.

Also I heard that if we get 3-4+ cars together NASA would create a class for us, and we can run in SCCA ITA.

[D Walker]

You cant afford a decent intercooler, so unless you seriously make changes in your finances, you will not be able to afford road racing, especially in a turbo car that is also your street car.

[ricehunter]

You cant afford a decent intercooler, so unless you seriously make changes in your finances, you will not be able to afford road racing, especially in a turbo car that is also your street car.

I have been in a bit of a finical lul as of late, but once the galant is sold I will have 200-300 a paycheck that I can use to just play with, so about 600/mo. I just wish I would have gotten a little information about what I asked about instead of a comment about my personal finances.

[t_jolt]

I dont want to be that guy, but what don is true, to road race it takes money. And at first you have to be willing to follow what other people say. This will lead to you having a fun and more reliable car.

As for road racing, you need a lot. Does paul still post on here? or how about james? They will be able to tell you everything you need to know

Tyrel

[D Walker]

I have spent about 20 years of my life in amatuer and professional road racing- does this count?

[ricehunter]

Well I'm not looking to do it every weekend, I mean maybe once or twice a season. If I get into it really hard core I'd probably go with a Pro7 or an MX5 woich would only require rebuilding the engine every 2-4 seasons (depending on how much you run). I know to run with SCCA I need to go to a driving school and have an instructor ride with me for me to get my licence. I just want to know what I would need to take it out on the track for open track day, I just want to take it out there have a little bit of fun then go home.

[D Walker]

Currently you need a racing lic of some sort or attend thier "school" to run at Pueblo.

[ricehunter]

If I wen to Pueblo's "school" would that count toward an SCCA or NASA licence or would I have to attend the respected sponsored school?

[D Walker]

No

[BlueVelocity]

I would try and do the 6 autocrosses required for the time trials license. Especially if you haven't raced on a track before. It's way better to spin out on a huge flat surface and say oh well, than to miss a braking point by 10 feet and find yourself starfishing off the end of the track. Before the money, before the car prep, before the license requirements, you need to know where yours and the cars limits are. Otherwise you won't be racing very long. A great driver is the one that can drive the car and himself to the very limit, and then do it for another 50 laps.

Paul is out of the game. He and I raced together for a number of years, as well as Jake Latham.(a long time CODSM member) Jake is now the track record holder for Hastings in his DSR and occasionally posts. I talk to Paul quite a bit, he is now a professional shooter. :)

Erron S.

[ricehunter]

Thanks Erron, I was sighned up for the RMsolo Auto-x that was supposed to be in december, that got cancled, rescheduled, canceled, recheduled, etc. I know the suspention is set up for auto-x right now as opposed to Road racing, but I've heard its just a little bit of adjustment to account for the larger turns. I'm just not one of those guys who wants to only go fast in a straigh line.

[BlueVelocity]

If you go to one up here, let me know. I'll come down and meet you there. I'm going to take my car to a few of the spring events too. It's a great place for setting up a car, you have hours on hours to tweak the car between runs.

[Paul]

I talk to Paul quite a bit, he is now a professional shooter. :)

Erron S.

Oh, I wish!

I was just thinking if SC was still open we would be running for free!

I have never been on the track at Pueblo. I have heard you can hit max speed? Therefore, prep your car like you have never before. Z rated tires, fresh brake fluid, good brakes, lots of fuel, etc.

Most common newbie mistake - early apex.

Call and see what it cost and what you need to get on the track. Take it slow at first and pay attention to what your car is telling you. Just have fun and be safe. The first gun competition I did my goal was to just not get disqualified. Make your goal to drive home.

My daily driver was my track car. I think if it had been a dedicated race car it would have been better. I did alright but the prep time started to be a killer.

I honestly think to this day that the track time my Son had saved his life once.

Jake has a track record? We should hookup and all go shooting some time. 2005 was a great year!

Paul

[ricehunter]

Well it looks like the next one is Feb 10th, the one that was scheduled of December was canceled officially. So it looks like I have some time to prep, I'll have new tires, and I'll see if I can scratch some up for better brakes.

Well I'm sure that you could hit top speed because the front straightaway is also the 1/4 mile. I'll have to ask my brother, I think he's run there twice in his Pro7. I'm sure if we setup a late summer track day then I'm sure he'll bring out one of his cars.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/emoguitarboy/PMI-1.jpg
(looks like the picture was taken on drag day)

[itsallaboutthegsx]

Your best bet for a quick track day is to run with NASA. You have to become a member and then sign up for an HPDE event. For a HPDE event you need a car in good mechanical condition (road worthy, battery tie down) and a helmet. You will sign up in HPDE1 which includes an instructor that rides along with you. You get a log book and when they sign you off you can move up to HPDE2 (no instructor but the same run group as HPDE1). You keep progressing this way up to time trials if you like. This is the track NASA uses for licensing. There are probably more requirements for a wheel to wheel license but this is a start. All the details are on their web sight. The most important thing to remember is you are not racing. You are out to have a good time and learn car control. Once you make the decision to go racing, and have the funds, you can choose the class you want to race and get a race car.

You can also run the SCCA track but I don’t know as much about there requirements for the street car events. I will try to dig up more details at the next membership meeting. You can also send an email to the contacts on the www.scca-cdr.org web site, they are all very friendly and helpful. This would also require you to be an SCCA member. They do give a free day at the track if you are a coarse worker at a regional race. Being a cores worker is also a good way to learn a corner as you can watch car after car enter and exit.

To run at PMI on an open days, not with NASA or SCCA, you need a race license or to go through there school. I also think you need a prepped race car (role cage and other safety equipment).

NASA will create a class if you can get 4 cars to race. You would have to come up with rules though and the cars would need similar modes if any at all. In SCCA you can run with ITE but you would have to set the car up with a cage and other race safety equipment. This puts the car in the not street able class as you should only drive it if you have a helmet on (hard role bar and soft head do not mix).

[D Walker]

Have you been road racing before? A LOT of people drive thier race cars on the street, although not many would consider them for "daily" use.
I drove my SCCA HP/GT5 Spridget nearly daily when I was in college, roll cage, open exhuast, and wide effin wheels. Pretty much the only changes I made between race day and driving it to class was to retard the timing a bit, change from slicks to my "street"(Yokohama A008 Spec wrecker)tires, and when I ran the last of the "track" fuel- 111 octane- through it I would put in 107 octane "street" gas. Driving it around town I got about 35mpg out of the high-compression 1500-ish cc motor.
Erron Spalsbury still drives his ITE 3kgt when he has an opportunity and he doesnt have it torn apart. Many of the Spec 944 guys drive thier race cars on the street nearly daily as well.
An HPDE is NOT road racing, its a bunch of medium speed parade laps that I am not sure actually teaches you much about car control for racing. IMHO if you want to go racing, buck up and go ****ing racing. I myself started by autoxing in the same Spridget I ended up racing, but drove a number of cars- VW Scirrocos, TVR's, Porsche 911/914/924/944's, various Formula cars- Super Vees, Formula Vee, Atlantics and Continentals, etc. I won a regional championship, did a couple of hillclimbs, ran the Dogwood Gran Prix, etc until on a whim I went and did a PCA day at Roebling Road. Autoxing at that moment lost pretty much all appeal and I decided to go road racing in earnest.
If all you want to do is "make a few laps" then just go to the class Puebloe requires and show up for thier open days. If you want to do more than you need to seriously consider a lot of things.

[ricehunter]

I'm sure itsallaboutthegsx meant by "not street able class" the car could be driven on the street, but would be incontinent... If I did drive it on the street I'd most def wear a helmet cause I don't want to catch my brains all over the sun roof.

I guess I'll just hit up the class at Pueblo, go out and have some fun. If I like it and I have enough finances for it then I might look into getting a license of some kind and a car that if I flip it I won't care. Someone told me that "If you can't push it off a cliff and walk away, then you shouldn't race it" I'll go try it then probably look into a project car to mess with so if I blow it up, roll it, completely eff it up I'm not out that much. Or go pick up a DD/beater to get to school/work if something happens

[Paul]

I guess I'll just hit up the class at Pueblo, go out and have some fun. If I like it and I have enough finances for it then I might look into getting a license of some kind and a car that if I flip it I won't care. Someone told me that "If you can't push it off a cliff and walk away, then you shouldn't race it"


Good choice. Go, have some fun and be safe.

Pay no attention to extreme generalizations.

Paul

[ricehunter]

Thanks, is there anything required at the open track days or when I hit up the school all I need to bring is a helmet, pair of gloves and my car.

[Paul]

The CODSM website had a newbie section. Not sure about it now.

Just be sure to flush the brake fluid and put more air in the tires.

Paul

[ricehunter]

Thanks, I'm aware of the prep that I have to do, plus I'm sure my brother would be willing to help me out with anything I might miss. Just wondering if there's anything like safety equipment that I need to bring other than what I listed above. I didn't know I was still officially a newbie.

[Kibo]

Wait a minute...Erron's car is in ITE? I didn't know he was actually racing it... :p

(Like I should be talking...)

I'm working hard to get my 2G back in running condition. Feb. 10th sounds like a good deadline for "Stage 1" completion (basically a turbo and FMIC install with a bazillion niggling details and a few other items). Might be tight, but I'm sick of seeing the car up on jackstands instead of driving it on the streets!

Erron's suggestion of starting with AutoX is a good one in my opinion. I've never been to a NASA HPDE, but the SCCA Time Trials program is a blast. It looks like attendance was fairly low in 2007, perhaps because Pueblo is a long haul away for the AutoX crowd? I know that I wasn't as interested in Time Trials after SC closed because I don't have a trailer and I didn't want to depend on my track car to get me to/from the track.

Paul is right about prep taking more and more time as you get further along. Sure would be nice to own a dedicated race car like Jake or a trailer so I could prep the car ahead of time rather than at the venue.

[Paul]

I didn't know I was still officially a newbie.

Have you been on the track yet?:)

Paul

[ricehunter]

Well I'm hitting up the Auto-x on Feb 10th, that is if I get my clutch & tranny fluid changed out, still having that griding problem. If that doesn't fix it then I'll either be doing a rebuild with my brother or I'll take it to Jack for an upgrade. Mid Jan I should be tuning my car for what's on there, throw on the exhaust, retune, throw on the FMIC, retune, put on the fuel system upgrades, retune... gonna be lots of fun.

I've taken my car to the 1/4, but I didn't take it to the road course last season. And Like I said I'm not interested in competing in my DD car, if I like it I'll probably go pick up a 1g or one of the Spec 7 or Miata... but I do like the idea of having a DSM road course car :D

[Kibo]

Of the three cars you listed, I'd suggest the Miata as a fun track car. You can pick them up pretty cheap, and the dynamics of a RWD car are generally a lot more fun on the track IMO. If/when you decide to get into wheel-to-wheel racing, there are tons of racing options for Miatas.

The Spec 7 could be fun, but you have to make sure that's really the route you want to go. It's one thing if you love the car and just want one; but if you're a racer, you need to make sure the car and its racing prospects fit your racing goals.

Don't get me wrong--I love DSMs and I love AWD--but a 1G DSM has a lot of things working against it that would have to be changed, and that adds up in $$ and time. Even then, it ends up being a bit of a bastard child and you have to ask yourself whether it can truly be competitive in whatever final form you achieve since there aren't any DSM-specific racing classes.

[Paul]

Don't get me wrong--I love DSMs and I love AWD--but a 1G DSM has a lot of things working against it that would have to be changed, and that adds up in $$ and time. Even then, it ends up being a bit of a bastard child and you have to ask yourself whether it can truly be competitive in whatever final form you achieve since there aren't any DSM-specific racing classes.

The very reason I bought a DSM. A well prepared DSM (of course the superior 2G) will not be competitive with a well prepared M3 unless it rains or snows. However a DSM is good at a lot of things - fun daily driver, drag, snow, and road race. You can have fun doing the Pikes Peak hill climb if you want!

If you get serious and have the money then get an appropriate platform. I would agree with Jake here and get a Radical.

Go, have some fun, and then check how thick your wallet is. The great thing about being on the track is it is not how fast you dare, but how fast you can.

Paul

[Kibo]

The very reason I bought a DSM. A well prepared DSM (of course the superior 2G) will not be competitive with a well prepared M3 unless it rains or snows.

I'm curious why you say that, Paul? Is this observation based on road racing rather than AutoX? I agree that it's definitely a lot easier to make an M3 fast, as you can build from the wealth of parts and experience that's available. However, just because the same advantages aren't readily available for the 2G, I don't take that to mean that it can't be prepared to be competitive with a comparably prepared M3.

In AutoX, DG was successful against the likes of Tunnell and Sias; and although he certainly had one of the most prepared 2Gs competing on a national level, he hadn't maxed out the platform. Even though Tunnell's M3 is no longer in SM, a 2G can be made just as light, run the same width rubber, and make just as much power as his M3 did in SM trim. The potential differences I see (aside from driver, of course) are chassis stiffness, weight distribution, CG height, and things that can't be dramatically improved upon without fairly significant modifications to the chassis itself. This is where my emotional attachment to the DSM platform becomes a crutch--a racer by nature would choose an M3 over a DSM in a heartbeat.

If anyone is serious about it, Tunnell's M3 is up for sale... :cool:

If you get serious and have the money then get an appropriate platform. I would agree with Jake here and get a Radical.

On a slightly smaller budget, I think a shifter kart would still be pretty sweet.

[Paul]

a 2G can be made just as light, run the same width rubber, and make just as much power as his M3 did in SM trim. The potential differences I see (aside from driver, of course) are chassis stiffness, weight distribution, CG height, and things that can't be dramatically improved upon without fairly significant modifications to the chassis itself. This is where my emotional attachment to the DSM platform becomes a crutch--a racer by nature would choose an M3 over a DSM in a heartbeat..

I am not sure how much it would take to make a 2G just as light. The weight is the major factor. I went with Doug to SC on a Friday before a road race event. We talked with the guys racing SRT4's and with one guy who had been the mechanic for a DSM team. He said they were middle of the pack in good weather and top of the heap when it rained.

I suspect there are a myraid of little differences that a ten year old economy car could overcome, but why? If you want to race buy a racing platform. If you can afford only one car and want to still have some fun run your DSM.


If anyone is serious about it, Tunnell's M3 is up for sale... :cool:


It has been for some time. I think he had over $100,000 in development costs. It still has some cooling (hehe) issues I think. Probably OK for autox. IIRC he did two laps at Time Trials Nationals and crushed my time. Great driving, 500 less pounds and over 100 additional hp were factors. I think he was running 315's vs our <G> 275's also.

Keyboard racing now but it is fun for me to at least do that on occasion. I think (don't know) that with an external WG and better intercooling I could have been at least 1/2 second faster. I also think with more experience on the larger tires I could have improved. Maybe with just this been in the low 1:16's.

To catch Erron and put some pressure on Tunnell I would have had to make it a dedicated race car. Lose some weight, add a stroker motor with a bigger turbo (Doug's setup was/is nice), go to at least 285/18 tires/wheels, and spend a lot more time at the track.


On a slightly smaller budget, I think a shifter kart would still be pretty sweet.

Slightly smaller! A little rough on an old man's joints though.

Paul

[Kibo]

I am not sure how much it would take to make a 2G just as light. The weight is the major factor.

I hope to find out. :) Tunnell is pretty open with info about his car's setup. According to Tunnell's setup page (http://www.bimmerhaus.com/raceprep/M3toBSP.html), he had his car down to 2770 in SM trim. I'm going to assume that's without a driver since he doesn't mention it. With my 2G mostly stock (A/C, rear seats installed, spare removed) plus a fairly heavy hitch, car+driver weighed 3280. Subtract the ~150lb driver, and I still have 360 pounds to make up. The hitch, rear seats, and A/C are easy places to save weight, and I'll likely be pulling the airbags as well. That's not nearly enough to make up the difference, though, so I may need to get creative!

I suspect there are a myraid of little differences that a ten year old economy car could overcome, but why? If you want to race buy a racing platform. If you can afford only one car and want to still have some fun run your DSM.

The E36 is a decade old as well--so why not?

It has been for some time. I think he had over $100,000 in development costs.

I read that as well. I wonder if that included the car purchase price? I couldn't find the 'for sale' link on the site anymore, so maybe it sold?

It still has some cooling (hehe) issues I think. Probably OK for autox. IIRC he did two laps at Time Trials Nationals and crushed my time. Great driving, 500 less pounds and over 100 additional hp were factors. I think he was running 315's vs our <G> 275's also.

Like you said, the weight (and the driving) are the hard parts to match with a DSM.

Keyboard racing now but it is fun for me to at least do that on occasion. I think (don't know) that with an external WG and better intercooling I could have been at least 1/2 second faster. I also think with more experience on the larger tires I could have improved. Maybe with just this been in the low 1:16's.

To catch Erron and put some pressure on Tunnell I would have had to make it a dedicated race car. Lose some weight, add a stroker motor with a bigger turbo (Doug's setup was/is nice), go to at least 285/18 tires/wheels, and spend a lot more time at the track.

The FP3052 seems like a great match with a stroker for road race use, but I think it would be too big for AutoX. The other primary candidate is the FP3150. Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there, which won't be for a while at the rate I do things. :p

Slightly smaller! A little rough on an old man's joints though.

Not that a DSR would be much more gentle!

[Paul]

According to Tunnell's setup page (http://www.bimmerhaus.com/raceprep/M3toBSP.html), he had his car down to 2770 in SM trim.



I had heard the car is lighter than that. I saw no updates for 2004 or 2005 on the website. I think DG's car was right around 2700 lbs? Mine was around 3,150 lbs. Now that I remember I think I did take out the back seat and spare tire for Nationals.

I know he wasn't running 285's that day!

He sold the car for a reason.

Paul

[BlueVelocity]

I was watching the repeat of the solo nationals on Speed the other night and it had a snipit of Bob and Patti's car on there. I think the car is now in EP or FP? They mentioned that the car is modded beyond belief now and judging by the 4 foot high 5 foot wide wing on the back, I'd agree.

Erron S.

[v413nc3]

DG's car was a sight heavier than 2700. Trust me I argue with him all the time. Some of the best road raced 2G's you'll find were the Archer cars which competed in the 24hr. Yes Don, a DSM is reliable enough to do that, just most aren't built well enough as I'm sure you see day in and day out in a shop. :) They were factory sponsored and had a number of really damn nice pieces that were one-offs that a ton of people would love to get their mits on. Including a wider fender setup to fit some nicer tires. Don gives damn good advice with the heat issues. Anyone who road races will tell you that heat is one of your biggest issues. It's not drag racing where you make one pass and you get to cool off. Cooling is a MAJOR consideration for any Road Racing. Brakes, Coolant, Oil, Trans, Diffs, Driver (yes those suits get hot as hell). The best drivers in the world can't do anything with soggy brakes and an overheating engine. If you're serious about getting into some Road Racing you couldn't have better local advice than Erron, Paul, Erik, and Don. They've paid their dues, had their issues, and could help you a lot without you having to learn by way of out of pocket mistakes.

[v413nc3]

http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1183477161/1183477161ss.htm

[Kibo]

Erron, the Tunnell M3 was modified to run in XP (nearly unlimited!). I think the bench wing thing was started by someone else a year ago and was shown to actually add downforce even at AutoX speeds.

Thanks for the cool link, Jake. That's a pretty sweet car! It's interesting to see the build differences, like the divider behind the driver's seat. I'm not sure how I got lumped in with the like of Erron, Paul, and Don, but I ain't complainin'. :)

I haven't been keeping up with RMDSM so I don't know if you've posted any updates, but I'm excited to see what you come up with for fender flares.

[BlueVelocity]

I actually got to see the flares first hand over the weekend. Very nice, very light. I think Jake will have a very nice car once it's all done.

Erron S.

[v413nc3]

Thanks guys. I've got a lot of time into this chasis design (and money). That divider in the archer 2G is because of fuel cell placement. That's a rear firewall. Because of the way the rules are laid out this year I've had to make a choice in how my cell would be done. And I kid you not when I say that an FIA spec fuel cell for our cars that goes in the stock location and has all the stuff to make it work costs $14,000. No that is not a typo. The cell cannot be located very far from the stock location, so I had to choose to either build a box where the back seat used to be and plumb in a way to get fuel to it. Which would be cheaper. Or keep the stock saddled type and call up fuel safe and ask them to modify an Evo fuel cell (theirs are saddled too) to work with a 2G in stock location with stock filling location. It was painful, mainly to the pocket book, but that's what I chose. I wanted the fuel as low as possible in the car and as central as possible. So in keeping with the great factory location (but not design) I chose that route. As soon as the car gets out of the body shop there will be a bunch of surprises going on, many courtesy of Marco at Magnus. C&R also has done me the favor of designing a much larger cooling system for me. And sometime this millenia I can hope that Peterson fluid systems will give me a good reason to ditch the front case. I'm sure a few of you can guess what that means. With any luck the car will do ok this year, and even better, pave the way for some of these items to become commercially available to you guys at much lower prices. You should see the piping I ordered for the exhaust. Pretty neat, I think Don would even think so, and he's pretty critical :p We'll leave the turbo, head down under the block and then the trip back will all be oval instead of round. I need some extra clearance but I don't want to sacrifice exhaust diameter. All in all I am just hoping for a fun vehicle to drive this season.

[Paul]

Some of the best road raced 2G's you'll find were the Archer cars which competed in the 24hr.


Archer - I remember when one of their cars was for sale. The mechanic Doug and I talked to was part of their "team".

I had a discussion about oil starvation on sweeping right hand turns with some of the autox drivers. I was never able to come to a firm conclusion about it. I can only comment that my 2G engine did well considering the occasional abuse (grins at Steve Wells) and hard miles it had seen. If I were to seriously race a DSM again I would revisit this. Perhaps the security of an aftermarket oil pan would be comforting.

It is not the kind of car you race, but the preparation that dictates reliability.

Paul

[v413nc3]

The oil starvation happens on hard launches as well. Some people have been modifying the oil pickups. I'm going a slightly...different route. Hopefully I'll be getting rid of the whole front case soon.

[Kibo]

Cool, the only real 4G63 dry sump I've seen was back when a cast Ralliart dry sump oil pan came up for sale on eBay years ago. As cool as a dry sump would be, I certainly don't want to be the guinea pig. Thanks for stepping up, Jake. ;)

I think the Moroso oil pan and/or an Accusump setup would be more than sufficient for anything I'd ever do with my car. I'm plumbing the oil cooler so that an Accusump could be added without much difficulty in the future. Accusump recommends a minimum of -10AN plumbing, which is on par with the 11mm passages on a 7-bolt Evo3 external oil filter adapter. I drilled out the 16x1.5mm metric adapters from ~9mm nominally to 11mm to match the internal passages, and the oil cooler plumbing itself is -12AN. (Yes, -12AN is overkill--but I got a great deal on the cooler and didn't realize the fittings are integral to the cooler instead of adapters like every other Setrab I've ever seen. I ran with it.)

[Paul]

Cool, the only real 4G63 dry sump I've seen was back when a cast Ralliart dry sump oil pan came up for sale on eBay years ago.


I talked with Gary Phillis about this. I would have done something when a stroker went in. There were "kits" available at the time.

Paul

[v413nc3]

It will be nice to have the additional oil available, not to mention an easier way to regulate oil pressure. I'm tired of seeing more than ~75.

[Kibo]

Agreed, it's great to see someone actually working towards a solution. I haven't seen the "kits" that Paul referred to; but then, I haven't been truly looking because I'm nowhere near needing one yet. :)

[BlueVelocity]

Speaking of, how are your projects coming along Erik?

Here's a little motivation.....

Do it..
Do it...
Do it...

The season is fast approaching and the snow and cold weather is keeping me out of the garage. I'm making some progress this weekend, hands down.

[Kibo]

Projects are going reasonably well. Right now I'm still stuck on some stuff that's completely unnecessary for getting the car running, but it's stuff that's best done now since I'll never do it later. Namely, I've been polishing the compressor housing and the intake manifold to a mirror finish. (Talk about a royal pain for the arms/hands, especially in a cold garage!) The compressor housing (clocked, ported, and shaved) is pretty much done; the intake manifold (extrude honed, port matched, extra bungs removed) is about 80% done. I'll post some pics in the gallery from home (can't do it from work). :)

The external oil filter adapter has been prep'd, just need to bolt it onto the front case. I've test fit the Setrab 625 oil cooler, and it looks like it will fit pretty well. I'm glad I went with a 625 instead of a 634 for now, as there isn't much extra room under there. I'm hoping the fittings will show up today or tomorrow, as my goal is to have the cooler mounted and hoses completed this weekend. I have yet to decide on the best place to mount the power steering cooler, as it's partially dependent on how the final oil cooler mounting turns out.

The last two major projects I need to accomplish before the car will run are the IC piping and the O2 housing. The IC piping should be pretty straightforward once I have everything bolted on to check the fitment, so I'm going to attack that one next. I'm building my own 2.5" SS O2 housing w/ external 38mm Tial, and that will definitely be the harder project. Why build instead of buy? Well, I think it will be fun and educational, and then I can say I built it. Besides, then I'll have no one but myself to blame if things don't turn out the way I want. ;)

That's "stage 1" that I hope to have completed and ready by Feb. 10th, by the way. Once it's up and running well, I have some pending fuel mods (AFPR, 1600s, E85, WBO2, tuning), breathing mods (264s), new street wheels, and a ton of suspension work to do (SPC arms, sphericals, Penskes). At some point here I'll have to pull the tranny and haul it down to Jack as well to get the Quaifes installed plus some other goodies--unfortunately, that probably means more downtime unless I can find another 2G transmission to rebuild. Last but not least is the 2.4 build, which probably won't happen until next winter unless I'm incredibly effective in the coming months. :p

[v413nc3]

Skip the power steering cooler and get a much larger resivoir. Works just fine, doesn't take up airflow you may need elsewhere, and was a great tip from the folks at RRE.

[Kibo]

Skip the power steering cooler and get a much larger resivoir. Works just fine, doesn't take up airflow you may need elsewhere, and was a great tip from the folks at RRE.

Hmmm, that's an interesting idea. Most people are familiar with ditching the stock "cooler" when installing an FMIC, and I decided to add an aftermarket cooler to make up for lost capacity even moreso than lost cooling capability. Even though I've never had steering problems, I figure the rapid steering wheel movements experienced at AutoX are probably harder on the power steering system than what you'd typically see on a road course.

The p/s cooler I have right now is this tiny 4x6" cooler (http://www.bakerprecision.com/trucool.htm) (p/n PS-LRG). I was considering mounting it with airflow across it (rather than through it) so it doesn't block any cooling air for the oil cooler, yet still receives enough airflow to keep p/s fluid temps reasonable.

Do you have any particular recommendations or example installations for aftermarket reservoirs?

[v413nc3]

Hmmm, that's an interesting idea. Most people are familiar with ditching the stock "cooler" when installing an FMIC, and I decided to add an aftermarket cooler to make up for lost capacity even moreso than lost cooling capability. Even though I've never had steering problems, I figure the rapid steering wheel movements experienced at AutoX are probably harder on the power steering system than what you'd typically see on a road course.

The p/s cooler I have right now is this tiny 4x6" cooler (http://www.bakerprecision.com/trucool.htm) (p/n PS-LRG). I was considering mounting it with airflow across it (rather than through it) so it doesn't block any cooling air for the oil cooler, yet still receives enough airflow to keep p/s fluid temps reasonable.

Do you have any particular recommendations or example installations for aftermarket reservoirs?


Something that would hold a fair amount of fluid. Ours doesn't hold anything for fluild :( Find a good location to mount it, maybe right over on that side where it is, and get one on ebay. Search fo PS resiviors and you should find some nice cheap sheetmetal ones.

[Cloud]

I am using the exact same ps cooler kibo. I mounted it between the fmic and radiator and weather stripped the cutout for the hoses so it is still a relatively sealed duct. I like the setup a lot now. I had some issues overheating my ps fluid on some hill climb stuff and it's never been an issue since and it's hard to believe it takes up a significant chunk of my cooling budget just based on size and relative heat rejection it would need but I could be wrong. I considered putting it behind my sidemounted oil cooler but decided against it because space is tight in there and it would be a lot more difficult for me to keep my washer reservoir and I like not messing up stock placements of things if I can avoid it.

[Ludachris]

To the original poster:

If you just want to get out on the track and have fun without competing do a NASA HPDE event. No racing license needed, it's relatively cheap and you get an instructor. It's safe and you'll have a blast. If you want to compete in NASA's Time Trials events you'll have to run a few HPDE events anyway to get signed off for a Time Trials license.

Not sure how SCCA works out here but historically you'd have to get a racing license before you could participate at any of their road course events. It might be different now that they're starting to do Time Trials events.