Fuel Cells

[milehightalon]

Does anybody have a good source of information regarding fuel cells. I certainly understand the benefit, and intend to install one in the race car at some point. I just need to better educate myself on the details. I'm looking for details on sizing, placement, mounting, plumbing, pump setups, firewall requirements, etc. Something DSM specific would be great, but anything will help.

Thanks

[Bryan Savage]

Meh. I did the same thing, but I couldn't really find any useful information about them.

I ordered a ten gallon aluminum cell from Summit. The filler hole that was already in it only needed the bolt holes widened a little to accept the factory fuel pump module with no other modifications. Of course, if you do that, there's no way to put fuel in the cell, so you'll have to create another opening.

Check with any racing sanctioning body to see what is required and what isn't. "Race" cars only is the rule here, as without something incredibly inconvenient or tiny, nothing is better than the factory tank.

Pretty much any cell you find will be "universal", as so few people want one that making an application-specific cell would be a waste of time and they would cost lots of money. Look up specific tanks for Mustangs to see what I mean.

[AWD4g63t]

HAHAHA.........

I thought we were talking about Hydrogen fuel cells there for a second!

[dsm_gsx97]

I know Erik A. was selling his a month or two ago. He had a very nice one. I imagine (knowing him) he did his homework on them and could tell you what he found shopping for them. I'm sure when he see's this post he'll chime in. I briefly looked at them, but the NHRA doesn't allow them in the Sports RWD/AWD heads up class. You must retain the stock fuel tank, so I never looked into them more than that.

[iamtall77]

I am also looking for a fuel cell. All the ones I see are for carburated engines. Brian, how does the stock fuel pump assembly fit? I assume you got a tank that was the correct depth so it would work okay. What is the depth any ways? Are there any specific cells that have this filler hole that I should look for? Don't they just make an EFI fuel cell?

[Bryan Savage]

I believe the one I got was Summit part number SUM-291210 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D291210&N=4294839036+400304+115&autoview=sku). I bought the shallowest one Summit sold at the time. Well, the shallowest one with any sort of decent capacity.

The pump fit like this:
http://home.comcast.net/~bryansavage/fuel_cell_pump_and_fillerG.jpg

Like I said, all these cells are universal. Most of them have sumps at the bottom for gravity feeding anything. The one I bought worked great because I didn't want to have to buy a new in-line fuel pump. Having the stock pump fit nearly perfectly was just a lucky coincidence. The fuel sock rests on the bottom of the cell, but since it's not in the sump, you can't run the tank dry. You start sucking in air at around two gallons full. It's quite annoying.

I use that neck shown which is Summit part number SUM-290191 (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2D290191&N=%2D128260+115&autoview=sku) to fill the cell, because you can plumb the factory fillpipe restrictor to it and maintain your locking cap, as per some rule sets.

The gasket sets are absolute rubbish though, so get used to the smell of petrol.


p.s. "iamtall", it's funny how you can misspell my name.... :p

[milehightalon]

Bryan,

Thanks for the reply. That helps a bit. I had read through your install (or at least the first half that you have on your site;) ) Did you use the factory fill pipe? I saw where you shaved the gas tank door, so I figured you did something else for filling the tank.

[Bryan Savage]

Well, I had drilled a hole to mount the factory fill pipe behind the license plate, as I planned on converting to a swing-down type, but I never got around to it. I just opened the hatch and stuck the nozzle into the filler.

Once I start getting things sorted out again, I'll be sure and post up what I'm doing. I thought I read in the NHRA rulebook that you have to have pretty much the factory filling system (locking gas cap with vent). Plus, the tank has to be sealed from the driver's compartment with 0.024" steel or 0.032" aluminum. I've got ideas, but that's all I've got at the moment. I'm not clear on whether you are able to fill it from the inside, or if it has to be accessable to the outside.

Racer parts wholesale has a whole ton of cool fuel system stuff. Check em' out (http://www.racerpartswholesale.com). Total race cars only though.

[milehightalon]

Total race cars only though.

I'm pretty sure my car fits this requirement.

[Kibo]

I'm not sure what I can add to this thread, but since Chris called me out... :p

The fuel cell that I have is made by Fuel Safe, model PC-108B. It's only an 8gal, and it's a standard cell (i.e. without any of the extra options).

My main reason for picking it up was that I got a great price on it, brand-new (these typically go for $720-$775). The reason I put it up for sale was because I thought I might want to try to stay in the Sport RWD/AWD class. The more I thought about it, though, it doesn't make sense to me to build my car to a set of rules for a single event or maybe two per year (since I have no plans to campaign my car nationally).

So I've just been sitting on it until I decide whether I want a fuel cell in my car, built my way. :cool:

If you think you might be interested in it, Justin, I could still be talked into selling it.

[iamtall77]

I just found a guy on eBay that makes poly fuel cells for a very reasonable price. Company is called Competition Race Accessories, but you can search for Low Boy fuel cells. typical units go for around $150-$200. The thing I still don't understand is the foam they put in there. How does that stuff work?

[milehightalon]

If you think you might be interested in it, Justin, I could still be talked into selling it.

I thought about it when you first posted it. The capicity is the major concern on yours. I would like the car to be able to turn 20 hot laps, since that is what the club races are. If I got the full 8 gallons out of it, at 5 mpg, on a 2 mile track that is exactly 20 laps. I'd prefer to have a little more breathing room.

Justin

[Kibo]

I agree, it's on the smallish side for a track car. It's probably just about the right size for a drag car, although it has a corner pickup instead of a sump (not a big deal IMO, but interesting). *shrug*

[Bryan Savage]

The thing I still don't understand is the foam they put in there. How does that stuff work?

All that stuff is, is a foam that doesn't dissolve when in contact with petroleum-based fuels. It's like sponges, except for it doesn't absorb any fuel. It comes in bricks that sit in the cell. They act as a dampener to prevent the fuel from sloshing around and possibly starving the fuel pump.

Oh, and they quiet noise too. The factory fuel tanks don't use it because they have baffles inside the tank that pretty much do the same thing, but never need to be replaced. I'm sure the foam has a service life, but I don't know what it is.

Does that help?

[Kibo]

In addition to the foam, the Fuel Safe Pro Cells have a flexible rubber bladder inside the steel shell. I believe this is done as a safety factor to help prevent potential fuel leakage in wheel-to-wheel racing in case contact breaches a seam on the steel shell. That's just my guess, though.