Boost creep: what to do?

[Jon_K]

Alright. I have a long shopping list of things I'd like to get done with the Talon this spring/summer but before I go any further I think it's a better idea to fix this boost creep issue. There's no point in doing anything else to the car if I can't control boost.

I'm debating over just having the wastegate ported, or going with a re-routed external wastegate.

If I have the wastegate ported, would that actually help in fixing this horrible boost creep, or just lessen the intensity?

Would it be worth it to go with an EWG?

Keep in mind this is my daily driver and I plan on keeping it streetable.

[D Walker]

I think I asked this before in PM, but how exactly do you have your EBC setup? Where are you pulling your boost source from? What exactly are you experiencing as far as boost creep? We currently have a E316G car here with similar mods as you with the exception of the AEM Tru-boost and AEM EMS, and thus far we have seen no signs of boost creep/spike at all.

[XakEp]

Isnt the boost control in the AEM adjustable by speed, but its in 15mph increments or something?

OP - get an external gate and dont look back.

[D Walker]

Boost in the AEM EMS can be controlled many, many different ways. However, the car mentioned above is using an AEM Tru-Boost EBC rathet that the EMS.

[D Walker]

OP - go full Garrett with an external gate and dont look back.

fixed that for you- I know what you really meant ;)

[XakEp]

fixed that for you- I know what you really meant ;)

Oh get AIDS. :)

[thiazole]

I agree with others here on the wastegate. If you can't work it out by tweaking the boost lines to your boost controller/wastegate actuator, then I would think about going external. You can remove your turbo and do some porting and hopefully that would fix it, but if it doesn't then it was a lot of wasted work. An external wastegate WILL fix the problem and since you live in Ft. Collins, you wouldn't even be illegal (unlike the rest of us outlaws). It is just a matter of cost, though. You need a different O2 housing and the wastegate itself.

[Jon_K]

I think I asked this before in PM, but how exactly do you have your EBC setup? Where are you pulling your boost source from? What exactly are you experiencing as far as boost creep? We currently have a E316G car here with similar mods as you with the exception of the AEM Tru-boost and AEM EMS, and thus far we have seen no signs of boost creep/spike at all.

I have it set up almost exactly like the manual says. The "out" on the control motor is hooked up to the wastegate, the "in" is tapped into the BOV vaccuum line, and the controller unit is tapped into a 3-way joint connecting to the intake manifold and the fuel regulator.

Now, a while ago (and i have no clue how this happened) the nipple on the spring end of my BOV broke off. So I ended up JB welding it back on, and now that has a small crack in it. I'm wondering if there might be a boost leak at the crack and that is somehow messing with the control motor since it's tapped into the BOV vaccuum line. (?)

As far as the controller unit, I have both the low and high settings turned all the way down, and the balance is turned all the way to mild. At WOT, boost climbs from about 10psi up to around 16psi.

I found the manual for this unit on GReddy's web site and they suggest setting the balance more towards sharp if you are over-boosting, but I'm wondering if this would cause boost spike. I might tweek around with this when it's warmer and not snowing . . .

[Jon_K]

An external wastegate WILL fix the problem and since you live in Ft. Collins, you wouldn't even be illegal (unlike the rest of us outlaws). It is just a matter of cost, though. You need a different O2 housing and the wastegate itself.

I have been giving the external a lot of thought. If I did end up getting one I'd have it re-routed back into the exhaust. (I just don't like the sound of a dumped EWG :) )

What about engine temp. though? Don't you have to lose the heat shield over the exhaust mani?

[D Walker]

I have it set up almost exactly like the manual says. The "out" on the control motor is hooked up to the wastegate, the "in" is tapped into the BOV vaccuum line, and the controller unit is tapped into a 3-way joint connecting to the intake manifold and the fuel regulator.

I have used the BOV line before with no issues on EBC's, so that should not be causing the issue.


Now, a while ago (and i have no clue how this happened) the nipple on the spring end of my BOV broke off. So I ended up JB welding it back on, and now that has a small crack in it. I'm wondering if there might be a boost leak at the crack and that is somehow messing with the control motor since it's tapped into the BOV vaccuum line. (?)

Absolutely! Any boost leak in the line to the solenoid will drastically affect performance! Even the way you have it Tee'd in will have an effect!

As far as the controller unit, I have both the low and high settings turned all the way down, and the balance is turned all the way to mild. At WOT, boost climbs from about 10psi up to around 16psi.

I found the manual for this unit on GReddy's web site and they suggest setting the balance more towards sharp if you are over-boosting, but I'm wondering if this would cause boost spike. I might tweek around with this when it's warmer and not snowing . . .


You definitely need to adjust your settings to fit your specific cars characteristics, after you fix your boost leak. I would say that at this point the costs etc associatted with an external gate would be wasted before you fixed its assorted issues.

[XakEp]

I have used the BOV line before with no issues on EBC's, so that should not be causing the issue.


This is a bad idea - get a seperate source off the manifold for your EBC.

[Jon_K]

You definitely need to adjust your settings to fit your specific cars characteristics, after you fix your boost leak. I would say that at this point the costs etc associatted with an external gate would be wasted before you fixed its assorted issues.

Good call. I need ot take care of the small stuff first. Think it would be wise to throw some more JB weld on the crack, just to seal it up for the time being? I'm going to replace the HKS anyway. (I have a set of upper IC pipes and a GReddy RS. Just waiting for the Dejon Sidemount!)

[g34rh34d]

For informational purposes only, (and posibly a fix) I have an EVO111 16G internal gate, with a profec b.

I have ported my factory O2 housing a bit in efforts to minimize creep, and the input to my profec Boost Control Solenoid (BCS) module is attached to a nipple at the boss (output) of my 16G with the biggest vac line that I could use and still cinch down on the nipples. The output of the BCS is then connected to the waste gate.

As mentioned in previous posts, I have tried different points of attachement whether it be a nipple Teed off the manifold, as well as into the line going to the BOV, and frankly those setups caused me considerable creep issues.

I truly believe that the length of the vac line as well as the size of the line is a contributor to creep. Which is why I opted to go directly to a spot on the turbo housing. Some will argue this is not the best location to attach your Boost control source to for various reasons. But for me the larger diameter vac line as well as shorter length to the nipple off the turbo housing seemed to make the difference. I can set my boost anywhere from stock 10.5 lbs to 22 highest setting on the profec b in my case and experience no creep to redline with this configuration.

FWIW

FH

[XakEp]

Directly off the turbo housing is (I think) the best place to run it, but I have no relevant data to contribute about the size of line to use.

[D Walker]

This is a bad idea - get a seperate source off the manifold for your EBC.

Agree it is a bad idea, but I have seen multiple people run it this way(still wrong!) and dont think it has as much to do with his issue as the leak at the end of it.

Generally speaking the best way to get your boost source is off the compressor housing at the turbo itself, followed closely by in the charge pipes pre-throttle body. Every single turbo manufacturer worth buying from recommends doing it this way, every manufacturer does it this way,Every single boost controller manufacturer says to do it that way, every turbo kit marketed says to do it that way, and I think that should be a sign.

[iamtall77]

After doing a couple of pulls today with my 14b, I would have to agree that running your boost source off the turbo itself is the best way. I was getting massive boost creep running the boost source off the intake manifold teed off with my BOV. I was only running on the stock wastegate, no boost controller and couldn't keep it from creeping up to 20psi near redline. It would hold steady at 10psi until about 4500rpm then creep until I let off. (usually around 5500rpm) Today's pulls kept the boost near 9psi and only crept to about 12psi at 6500rpm. I think after adding a boost controller I can keep this in check and run boost safely at around 15psi (maybe more) without creep issues.

[Jon_K]

But for me the larger diameter vac line as well as shorter length to the nipple off the turbo housing seemed to make the difference.

I must be blind. I'm not seeing any nipple on the turbo housing . . .:confused:

I was tweaking with the balance on my EBC today and have it set a little more than halfway to sharp (about 1:00). This seemed to help a great deal. I set the low to 11psi, which now only creeps to about 13psi. It seems to want to spike a bit if I set it more towards sharp . . . I haven't had a chance to play around at 15psi, which is really where it should be right now.

[matthewdesigns]

Evo3 compressor housings don't have a nipple. You need to add one yourself if that's the way you want to go. You could also add one on the j-pipe, which is what a lot of people do, too, if you don't want to go drilling holes in your turbo.

I had creep on my internally gated E3 until I installed a tubular o2. Now it's solid. I also use an MBC, with a tee'd line from the manifold (I know it's bad, but it works for me).

[Jon_K]

Evo3 compressor housings don't have a nipple. You need to add one yourself if that's the way you want to go.

OK, good...I thought so.

[g34rh34d]

I must be blind. I'm not seeing any nipple on the turbo housing . . .:confused:



Whoops sorry, I forgot to mention that. Yes there is a screw boss(?) on the housing that I drilled and tapped with an 1/8" NPT for my boost source. I can send ya a pic of mine if you want to email me with your addy.

g34rh34d@gmail.com

Sorry for the confusion.

FH

[Jon_K]

So the dialed in setting on my EBC seems to be holding fairly well. It still creeps about 1-2psi. Hopefully it will be gone for good when I get that ported EVO O2 housing