EFI University...class coming soon

[dsm_gsx97]

Above and beyond what most of you are interested in, but there are a handful of us that would love to go to this (if I had the money). DSMLink does a lot of this stuff behind the scenes (because the ECU handles it) so we don't know what is the "behind the scenes" stuff when tuning. Honestly with DSMLink you probably don't need to know half this stuff, but the more you know the more you can apply to your car. This should greatly improve your understanding of tuning your car.

EFI-101 Class here in Boulder Sept 16-17th.
http://www.efi101.com/schedule.html

What it covers is here:
http://www.efi101.com/efi101.html

And the course outline here:
http://www.efi101.com/efi101_outline.html

[cotsi95]

wow that would be GREAT to go to..but 4xx bucks is steap....

[Carl Morris]

wow that would be GREAT to go to..but 4xx bucks is steap....

Errr...hrrrm. The value of these classes will depend greatly on the knowledge and ability of the instructor. If I were to enroll in this class only to find that the instructor knew the same or less than I did and could only answer my questions using memorized answers with no real understanding I would consider the class to be almost worthless. However, if the opposite was the case and the person could answer every question I had with an in-depth understanding of the engineering and physics behind the answer then I would consider the class to be quite cheap. Reality is probably somewhere in between, hopefully more than halfway toward the second possibility. As a general rule, I would say that if you are at the stage of hotrodding (and life) where $4xx is too expensive, that probably means that you can't afford to break any parts, which means you don't really want to be doing any experimenting with your timing and air-fuel ratios anyway, so you don't really have any need for a "tuning" class :-).

I looked at their 101 course outline. Thanks to my engineering education and experience so far it looks like I already understand the basics that they are going to spend most of their time on, but would encourage anyone with an interest to learn more in those areas if they are weak in any of them. If the instructors really know their stuff it would still be worth the $4xx just to pick their brains on A/F and timing theory. For example, on real world fuel - boost, timing, and A/F are all compromised. Most of us just experiment until we get it about as good as we can...but if there were a known best methodology to use to optimize that would be a great thing to learn more about. They imply that they know why it's different for different motors, which implies they think that have an ideal methodology worked out for many different circumstances. That would be fascinating to get in-depth instruction on.

When you look at the advanced class it appears they are concentrating on helping people to learn and get comfortable with doing standard tuning while operating the vehicle and dyno. Definitely worthwhile stuff for business owners and "tuners" to learn, but I don't know if it will go any further into the advanced topics on the tuning itself, which would be my interest. I'm happy to pay somebody else to run the dyno so I can just think about the motor :-).

[dsm_gsx97]

Most of the AEM EMS guys were skeptics just like you about what they already knew and what could be answered out of the basic EFI-101 class. The few that went said that the beginning half was review of a lot of the things they already knew, but they still learned a lot of other things that they thought made this worth while. A person even commented on the instructor and how well he answered questions. A few were pissed that they had to take the basic class before they could be considered for the advanced class which is hands on. EFI101 basically explains it that this way everyone is on the same page when it comes to the advanced class and no one will slow the advanced class down because they missed info from the basics class. Lots about it on the AEM EMS boards (experiences, etc). I'd think you'd love reading some of the tech discussions on there anyways. Just create a free user account and do some searching for EFI-101 or MBT timing and you'll find info on the classes. AEM EMS FORUM (http://forum.aempower.com/forum/index.php)

Don't think I'll have the money for this class this time, but I'm buying a few books to help prime me for the time being until I free up some money for the next class when it comes.

[Carl Morris]

Done. I read everything that came up, the search on MBT brought up the best posts with less garbage. People seemed to like Ben, sounds like he's pretty good. The description of his current book sounds like I wouldn't get much out of it, but the next one might be more in-depth. Didn't see any new concepts or info in any of the posts, though. I'm not saying I think the classes would be a waste of time for me, I'm sure I'd enjoy them and would learn some things. I'm not seeing any evidence of anything that would change my life, though :-). I'm capable of going over to Super Rupair right now and getting whatever A/F ratio I want and tuning timing for MBT in all cases where I'm not knock limited. You'd think I'd go over and do it already, but I keep waiting until I've replaced the VPC with speed density code in the stock ECU so I don't have to do it twice...and at this point I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to that. The question is whether there's something more...such as do I want a significantly different A/F ratio than I think I want, or do I want it to change significantly over the rpm range? Doesn't sound like anybody is making it that complicated and seeing much gain. So, giving them every benefit of the doubt, I'm still not seeing evidence that info is available from them that should have me running for my checkbook and requesting vacation days? I don't really have the time and money unless it'll get me a good 25-30+hp more than I can get on my own. Maybe the more useful info would be tricks for perfecting idle and street manners? If I were working on other people's cars for money, then I guess I'd do it for the resume builder and whatever tricks I could pick up would just be icing on the cake. I like how they emphasize efficient/fast tuning methods for pros in the advanced class, that's probably very useful information when you're doing it for a living. That, and the chance to make your noobie mistakes on a car you're not responsible for :-).

So yeah, I know that plenty of guys just like me enjoy the class, I'm sure I would too. Can I justify it? Not so far...

[dsm_gsx97]

So yeah, I know that plenty of guys just like me enjoy the class, I'm sure I would too. Can I justify it? Not so far...

Well I think it would be safe to say you'd be one of the few exceptions out of our group about the benifits of this class from what you already know from your engineering background. I'm still borderline about tuning as a side business in a year or two when I feel I'm worth paying for my tuning. This class would probably help my resume like you said. :)

On a side note Ben didn't get a very good review of his book from Amazon. I'm reading it anyways, but it was odd to have so many people talk about his knowledge, but then the reviewer for his automotive book bashes him badly about how his knowledge is lacking in many areas. *shrug*

[cotsi95]

Its not that the class is too pricey...Im sure that it is a GREAT deal! its just i cannot afford the price right now. And i would rather save another 150 dollars and by DSMlink. If they come back next year and i have some extra money then there is NO DOUBT that i will be in it! If nothing more then to have my brain fried!:D

[dsm_gsx97]

It would be better for you also to have familiarized yourself with DSMLink before going in there or you might get really lost in a hurry. DSMLink is a step above SAFC's because of the ECU interaction, and this class is meant for people a step above that who are using full engine mangement systems. This class would be overkill for DSMLink, but would help you understand the methods and backgrounds for everything you do with an EFI system and tuning it. Maybe we'll all go when it comes back through :)