Highplains, OH MAN!

[BlueVelocity]

The usual suspects of speed made their way out to Highplains Raceway on Saturday for the walking/biking/skateboarding tour of the new track.
Let me just say, holy cow is this one of the coolest tracks ever made.

Let me explain with pics...
This is the front straight, you can just see the end which is the -2nd- right at the end of the track.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/1149/1129084vp2.jpg

Ya, way down there...
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6022/1129082nx0.jpg

Here's the massive down hill that cranks you past the gigantic run off area...
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3361/1129089aq8.jpg

The other side of that corner..
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/649/11290810vu1.jpg

Then around the other mountain, up then down again, and curving back to the huge pit lanes..
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6388/11290824sx4.jpg

There's a few more on my image shack account there. I only loaded a few that I took. Wow, what a seriously wicked, cool, super fast, 'better be on your game that day', kind of track!:D I CANNOT WAIT!

Erron S.

[JackM]

Me either. I'll definitely be there the first day they allow us to race on it, lol!

Jack

[fhudsonjr]

Looks like a great track.
Here's what Dave Balingit-RM Regional Director for NASA said about NASA being able to run there and also about Genoa.
bpanther
RM Regional Director


Vehicle(s):
'98 Mustang GT - CMC
2002 WRX
Location: Elizabeth, CO
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,853 I am sorry if my frustration in trying to get a date (or even see what dates are available) at HPR has taken this turn. The fact of the matter is, NASA was not around when the original 5 was founded. We missed the boat and don't have the advantage of getting 1st shot at dates at HPR. That is fair, as we are the new kid on the block.

I do know that RMVR is only using 3 of their weekends, SCCA is using all 6, MRA is using 5 of the 6. This I have compiled from the various clubs schedules. This accounts for about 1/2 of the 32 available weekends. PCA has not released their schedule but if they use all 6 (which I guarantee they can't), that would leave about 12 weekends amoung the 8 clubs in MCCA. Most of these clubs can't afford the $12k price tag to rent the facility by themselves for a weekend. Taking a stab in the dark, I am guessing that there are about 10 open weekends.

For the 10 open weekends - who does that leave to rent? NASA. As far as I know, we are really the only other group in the area who can afford to rent the track. Of the 10 weekends, I am sure that there is at least 1 or 2 that will fit our schedule.

Where I am looking for backing was that we are not going to sit on hold with our complete schedule and miss out on the good dates given to us by other tracks because we are waiting until HPR decides what weekends would be given to us.



Now, on a related message - We are at the forefront of getting first choices at our "own" racetrack. Genoa. This is our opportunity to be top dog at a track. When Genoa first started up, NASA and several other groups (BMWCC, QuickChick, ViperDays,...) commited to that facility that we would support them and rent. In exchange for stepping up and backing Genoa we get first pick at good weekends. Genoa is just trying to get enough membership weight to complete financing.

Many see the $100k price tag and think this excludes them. Not so. There are several membership levels and I believe you can get started on a membership for as low as a $1500 refundable deposit. If you don't have the $$, but have the time - start looking for those that can afford to invest. They don't have to like motorsports, they just need to see the value in an investment as the top level memberships can payback in the future.

With that said, I think I'll start a new thread with the 2009 schedule....
________________________
Dave Balingit
Regional Director
dave @ nasarockymountain.com

[BlueVelocity]

As interesting as Dave's post is, a bit out of left field in my opinion.

This thread is about the track that has only a couple months before there are races on it. The first weekend in April actually.

Genoa and/or the The Ring of the Rockies, which are 2 other tracks that should be built in the future, haven't broken ground yet.
Layouts...
http://www.theringoftherockies.com/viewimage.php?backpage=track2&image=trackfullwithtilke
http://www.genoamotorsports.com/sub_plans.php#track

It may be years and years before these are ready for racers which is what makes Highplains so special. It's our home track, and the direct replacement for 2nd Creek. It's exactly 70.5 miles from my house, about a 20 minute drive. Har-har-har.

[D Walker]

Not to argue, but the real reason NASA doesnt "have a chance" at getting first shot at race dates is that the other clubs: PCA, SCCA, RMVR, MRA, and the Multi-Car club all pooled their resources years ago originally to help keep 2nd Creek, Pueblo, and LaJunta open and in good repair. They originally formed the Colorado Motorsports Council (CMC), which has since changed to the Colorado Amatuer Motorsports Association (CAMA). These Clubs sank in major $$ in funding the track and MADE IT HAPPEN. The track wasnt built by a single guy with lots of money or a single organization with bank financing, it was built by racers coughing up hard-earned money to make sure they had a place to enjoy thier hobby. The track is owned BY THOSE CLUBS, and NASA had a chance, as have we all, to contribute and be a part of the track. Right now they are still looking for donations, as the "blip" in the fuel prices and dip in the economy skewed the projected costs a bit. If NASA wants in, now would be a good time to show it. Also if you intend to use the track, and are glad its being built and look forward to many pleasurable days at the track, PLEASE contribute- anything helps and every single dollar goes to the construction of the track, and join one of the founding clubs and support them as well. Without those organizations there would be no track, without contributions from all of us that are excited to have a track to go to, there would be no track.

The track IS awesome- and it is very configurable for different course layouts. And they have gotten all the pavement down and it will be able to sit all winter and have plenty of time to "season" before cars are allowed on it. Jerry was telling me the other day they have been out there pretty much every weekend stacking tires and making it into a functioning track, so it will be ready for opening day.

[itsallaboutthegsx]

The first day you can run on the track in your street car will be Sunday 4/5/08 with the SCCA time trials program. http://www.sccatimetrials.org/ If you want to run on it Saturday 4/4/08 you will need to get a race car and enter the drivers school. If you are interested in this and need to rent a car I can hook you up with someone to rent from.

If you want to help get the track ready there are tier wall building parties every week for the next 12 weeks. This is a grate way to help bring this new track on line. If you want to get on the “tire guy” list here is the link. http://visitor.constantcontact.com/email.jsp?m=1101971778544&p=oi

As far as NASA having time on the track, there are currently 5 Available days on the schedule. http://www.highplainsraceway.com/events.html

[fhudsonjr]

Thanks for the background info. I wasn't aware of the history of CAMA or the track.
Hopefully NASA will be able to get in.

[BlueVelocity]

There's even more to it Fred. I don't know all the details, but NASA and SCCA don't get along. Back when Paul and I went to every Colorado Motorsports Council meeting, I remember some chatter about this topic. Needless to say, I'll run in both groups, I could care less.

IIRC, (we're talking around 5 years ago now) CAMA was actually formed from the big 5 car clubs and the revenue from 2nd Creek. That was the beginning of the funding for the track.

[D Walker]

IIRC, (we're talking around 5 years ago now) CAMA was actually formed from the big 5 car clubs and the revenue from 2nd Creek. That was the beginning of the funding for the track.

Thats right, even before 2nd Creek closed there was already a few working on getting a new track going.

I dont think this has very much to do with NASA and SCCA getting along, but more to do with the fact that NASA as an organization has not contributed a penny to the funding of the track, and that shouts volumes IMHO. While I dont think anyone at CAMA is opposed to NASA or anyone else renting the track, but can see why preferential treatment would be given to those people and organizations who helped build the track in the first place.

Another reason it is difficult to arrange any dates right now is the state of the track. Pavements down, but there is a lot left to do. Tire walls especially need to get done and theres no telling how many weekends of bad bad weather we might have that will slow down or prevent the work all together. Everyone I have talked to about the track progress has been extremely positive about opening on time, but there is still lots to do that could mean moving events arounds.

I will likely be running with NASA, SCCA, and PCA next year, and hope to be able to spend lots of time on all of the tracks in CO- HPR, PPIR, LaJunta, and PMP. I just really like that HPR is less than 45 minutes from me, with traffic.

[fhudsonjr]

Looks like NASA will be running at HPR April 18-19 and Oct. 31-1.

Any youse guys going?

[BlueVelocity]

Maybe? I'm going to go a full round this year with SCCA. Shooting for top point earnings this year. Why don't you come run SCCA with us?

Erron S.

[fhudsonjr]

Well, I'm still driving HPDE, so I'm still learning.
Consequently I don't have a competition liscense.

[itsallaboutthegsx]

You can run time trials with out a competition license. They have there own run group on race day. Very similar to HPDE in NASA.

Matt

[BlueVelocity]

You can run time trials with out a competition license. They have there own run group on race day. Very similar to HPDE in NASA.

Matt

Almost, you do need a Time Trials license and log book. These are pretty to easy to get though. I'd bet you'd be a shoe in with the HPDE experience. It's pretty close to HPDE, only we run for times. That and you get more than 3 hours of track time. (practice, qualify, competition)

[JackM]

Looks like NASA will be running at HPR April 18-19 and Oct. 31-1.

Any youse guys going?

I'm going to try as hard as I can to make it. IOW, the only way I wouldn't make it is if they don't have room for me or something... Never played with the NASA guys before, so I don't know if I would make it out there as a new guy when so many others are already going that have already raced with them. ...If that made any sense. Anyone know where I can sign up with those guys to get my foot in the door for this opening?

Jack

[Kibo]

Almost, you do need a Time Trials license and log book. These are pretty to easy to get though. I'd bet you'd be a shoe in with the HPDE experience. It's pretty close to HPDE, only we run for times. That and you get more than 3 hours of track time. (practice, qualify, competition)

I wonder if my license and log book from SC are still valid? I somehow doubt it. I better look into that...and renew my SCCA membership. :p

[Ludachris]

Definitely looks like a fun track. I'm planning on attending both NASA weekends at the very least - I'm hoping some of you will join me at the NASA events as well. I might look into doing some test and tune days or some SCCA events, but haven't looked at their schedule yet.

Having been involved in helping get NASA back off the ground here in the RM region (I'm from NorCal where NASA is huge), I can probably shed some light on some of what was said here. I've found there to be quite a bit more politics out here in Colorado than you'd think there would be with such small racing community. You don't see that out in CA as much as you do here, which is surprising in itself. Seems to me the politics have had more of a negative effect out here than positive.

Just to let you guys know a little bit about Dave's (the NASA Director) frustration and some NASA members in general... it's not the preferential treatment the CAMA clubs are getting with HPR - that was completely expected - it's been the perceived disregard CAMA appears to have for NASA, even though NASA has become pretty large and has become so active so quickly, with a solid passionate member base. Dave was trying to get some dates from HPR and was basically ignored for weeks while putting together his 2009 schedule. And then when he finally did receive a response, he wasn't given any idea of when/if he might be able to add HPR to his schedule. HPR seemed uninterested in working with NASA at all. Maybe that wasn't the case, but that was the perception. Other tracks in the area were calling Dave and welcoming NASA and HPR wouldn't even get back to him. I'm sure you could see why he was frustrated. It had nothing to do with CAMA clubs being given first dibs.

CAMA has always appeared to give NASA the cold shoulder. I don't know if it's intentional due to SCCA being represented in the group and the fact that SCCA and NASA tend to compete for participants in nearly all major US regions, or maybe it's not intentional at all. The message from CAMA has always been about promoting the motorsports community here in CO. But if you're not part of CAMA, it feels like you're not recognized as part of the motorsports community at all. The relationship between NASA and SCCA shouldn't have any effect on how one organization/club is treated by a motorsports council who is supposed to represent and support the entire motorsports community in this region. But the structure of CAMA sort of conflicts with that concept.

NASA wasn't around when the clubs joined together to form CAMA. Timing simply wasn't on NASA's side. D Walker mentioned above how it speaks volumes that NASA hasn't donated to the HPR funding - I disagree. I don't know all the details of why NASA has not contributed to the funding, though I'm sure it has something to do with Dave simply not having any cash left over to do so while trying to get NASA off the ground the past 2-3 years. He had to put up a lot of his own money to bring NASA back to the region and probably had to do it with credit much of the time. He's also taken a loss on some of the events due to low participation. NASA regional directors are responsible for bankrolling the effort and I know Dave hasn't had an easy time getting the RM NASA region where it is today. I've seen how hard Dave has worked and have also seen how NASA has been treated as an outsider in some ways - and maybe part of that is due to the fact that NASA used to be active here in the RM region years ago and was not run as well as it is in the rest of the country. It's a solid org now though.

NASA will be renting the track despite all the politics. And that in itself is a show of support. We're all motorsports enthusiasts, not club enthusiasts. If you prefer running with one org over another, that's fine. Hell, it's normal. But it doesn't do any of us much good to keep the walls up between the groups - they're both fun. We all really should work harder to get past the politics and participate with multiple groups when we can, support ALL tracks and track projects in CO - and recognize ALL motorsports groups as being an important part of our community. Pueblo will probably disappear at some point in the near future. And what's amazing is that we have the potential to see another 1-3 tracks built in CO - that's not even a remote possibility in the rest of the nation. Let's be happy that we'll all be able to enjoy HPR at some point (some more than others). But let's also push to have more tracks built! Coming from NorCal which has 4 great tracks, trust me, variety is the spice of life.

Those of us who love tracking our cars will not allow the politics to get in the way of using HPR, showing support for all tracks, or participating with multiple groups. Can't wait to meet up with you guys out at HPR and Pueblo this season. I'm excited about the possibility of finally seeing more than one other DSM aside from mine at a road course event - ON THE TRACK.

[Ludachris]

Almost, you do need a Time Trials license and log book. These are pretty to easy to get though. I'd bet you'd be a shoe in with the HPDE experience. It's pretty close to HPDE, only we run for times. That and you get more than 3 hours of track time. (practice, qualify, competition)
I think that's the main difference between SCCA and NASA and why there's a need for both.

With SCCA, you're either competing or you're not on the track. Until they recently launched their Time Trials program you couldn't even get on the track with SCCA unless you were racing wheel to wheel. It's great for people who are serious about competing. But you need to have prior track experience.

With NASA, you can be on the track and having fun without necessarily competing with their HPDE programs. It's a little more relaxed and more centered around having fun while driving fast. The entry groups (1 and 2) run with instructors. The HPDE program brings people to the track that haven't been there before, or have little experience and want to learn without spending big money on racing schools. NASA also has their own Time Trials program and race groups that run on the same days as HPDE, just separately.

If you want to run with SCCA, you need to get a Time Trials license and you need some prior track experience. You can attend a NASA event whether you're experienced or not. You can compete in both groups if you like.

[Ludachris]

I'm going to try as hard as I can to make it. IOW, the only way I wouldn't make it is if they don't have room for me or something... Never played with the NASA guys before, so I don't know if I would make it out there as a new guy when so many others are already going that have already raced with them. ...If that made any sense. Anyone know where I can sign up with those guys to get my foot in the door for this opening?

Jack
The only groups that usually reach capacity at NASA events are the HPDE 1 and 2 groups. That might change at HPR, but I kind of doubt it. You can sign up for the NASA events by visiting the site:

http://www.nasarockymountain.com

Though they typically won't open up registration until a month before the event.

[JackM]

Cool, thanks! I'll see you out there :)

Jack

[D Walker]

I think that's the main difference between SCCA and NASA and why there's a need for both.

With SCCA, you're either competing or you're not on the track. Until they recently launched their Time Trials program you couldn't even get on the track with SCCA unless you were racing wheel to wheel. It's great for people who are serious about competing. But you need to have prior track experience.

With NASA, you can be on the track and having fun without necessarily competing with their HPDE programs. It's a little more relaxed and more centered around having fun while driving fast. The entry groups (1 and 2) run with instructors. The HPDE program brings people to the track that haven't been there before, or have little experience and want to learn without spending big money on racing schools. NASA also has their own Time Trials program and race groups that run on the same days as HPDE, just separately.

If you want to run with SCCA, you need to get a Time Trials license and you need some prior track experience. You can attend a NASA event whether you're experienced or not. You can compete in both groups if you like.


Thats not exactly true- SCCA has always had Solo1 and 2 along with Time Trials, all of which have little to no lic requirements. To actually get on track at a race weekend only needs the required schools. Those can be either SCCA themselves or any accredited drivers school. Once you have a Comp Lic you can run pretty much any event you want. Im not sure what the current costs are (but I will be finding out soon) but the SCCA school weekend is not really that much. I personally have always liked this system over the PCA/NASA style sytem where to get a Comp Lic to actually race wheel to wheel you have to do some minimum number of DE's- I believe the PCA system is 6 DE's lets you run your first race weekend. This just seems to cost more and take longer, which I am not a fan of myself.
One of the things I think SCCA might be more strict on than NASA is safety equipment- the minimum required equipment by SCCA for even SOLO1 or TT is usually higher and thus a bit more costly than what NASA requires. This has always seemed to be an issue for newcomers who just want to run thier street car on a track.

[itsallaboutthegsx]

There are paths to get on the track in both SCCA and NASA. I think that the issue is SCCA has been a good old boy network for so long the info wasn’t easily obtainable. NASA is new and coming at it from a different direction. Both organizations are good for the sport and serve a purpose. I have my reasons for running with the SCCA which I would be more than willing to discus with anyone privately as I don’t want to be viewed as bashing NASA in any way on a public forum. I have also run with NASA and see many benefits to there program. As the director of road racing for the Continental Divide Regain of the SCCA I would like to see many more people come play with us and will offer my help to anyone that would like it. I would also be interested an all input on how the SCCA can be more accommodating to you, the track enthusiast.

Matt

[BlueVelocity]

As the director of road racing for the Continental Divide Regain of the SCCA I would like to see many more people come play with us and will offer my help to anyone that would like it. I would also be interested an all input on how the SCCA can be more accommodating to you, the track enthusiast.

Matt

Thank you Matt. I'll take you up on that offer. :D

I would the SCCA to have a "gentlemens" day where you could show up at the track and turn a few laps with nothing more than a helmet. I think it would introduce a number of people to the sport. It would certainly make for an exciting day. ;)

Erron S.

[Zeppelin]

I would the SCCA to have a "gentlemens" day where you could show up at the track and turn a few laps with nothing more than a helmet. I think it would introduce a number of people to the sport. It would certainly make for an exciting day. ;)



I would be interested in that as well. I'm sure I'm like most people where I'm not sure what all is required to run in the SCCA, but I would like to try my hand at driving somewhat aggressively in a controlled course. ;)

[itsallaboutthegsx]

I agree with you guys on this one and that is a place I would like to see club go. In the past the PDX/Time Trials group had their own days away from racing and fit this type of scenario better. Unfortunately the participation in club racing and the PDX/Time Trials has caused it to be financially construing to run them separately. We would like to get back to this scenario though. There is a PDX run group that requires nothing but a helmet to run in. You can also run this for free if you work the event (flagging a corner, registering drivers, etc). If you show that you can handle the car well you can graduate to the time trials run group, which is basically the same thing but you are getting times on your laps. The down side of this is there is only one run group per day from 8:00am – 8:30am. I will speak to Grant, the head of this program, about what it would take to extend it.

Matt

[Ludachris]

Thats not exactly true- SCCA has always had Solo1 and 2 along with Time Trials, all of which have little to no lic requirements. To actually get on track at a race weekend only needs the required schools. Those can be either SCCA themselves or any accredited drivers school. Once you have a Comp Lic you can run pretty much any event you want. Im not sure what the current costs are (but I will be finding out soon) but the SCCA school weekend is not really that much. I personally have always liked this system over the PCA/NASA style sytem where to get a Comp Lic to actually race wheel to wheel you have to do some minimum number of DE's- I believe the PCA system is 6 DE's lets you run your first race weekend. This just seems to cost more and take longer, which I am not a fan of myself.
One of the things I think SCCA might be more strict on than NASA is safety equipment- the minimum required equipment by SCCA for even SOLO1 or TT is usually higher and thus a bit more costly than what NASA requires. This has always seemed to be an issue for newcomers who just want to run thier street car on a track.
Maybe it's different out here in this region, but out in California, both NorCal and SoCal SCCA regions require some type of competition license before you can attend an SCCA track event - Solo events are not track events and don't require licenses. But any SCCA "track event" is basically a competition event. I just saw that Matt mentioned their PDX program... that must be the new HPDE equivalent now. Many people would rather just run a non-competition track event for fun, without having to get a comp license. That's why the HPDE events have been so extremely popular across the country, and even out here in this region.

That's where NASA has always been different - anyone could show up with their street car and participate, without any type of special license or extra safety equipment outside of a helmet. They attend NASA events to learn and have fun, not necessarily compete - though they're given a path to compete later if they choose. Anyone can bring their street car to an event and get track time and move up into Time Trials or wheel to wheel racing if they chose to at a later date (with instructor sign-off). The HPDE programs get as much track time as Time Trials usually and they take place on the same days as the racing series.

Maybe SCCA has changed those rules or it's different out here. But from what I've read that didn't seem to be the case. Either way, anyone can have fun with both clubs, and they should. NASA just happens to cater to a group that SCCA doesn't at the moment - the newbie and casual track enthusiast, as well as the competitor - whereas SCCA has historically catered exclusively to the competitor.That might be changing a little with their PDX program, but it's still not as big as the HPDE programs. That is really the only difference between the two groups - everything else, like the way the events are managed, rules, etc, is all subject to personal preference.

Matt, I've also felt that SCCA was more of a "good ole boy" club, as you mentioned . But it's changed a bit over the years. It still doesn't have the "family" feel that NASA does, but it's improved its service quite a bit. I think you guys are doing good things. And I hope there is less division between the two groups in the coming years. Nothing but good things will come about if both groups work towards that goal in my opinion. I always encourage people to run with both groups.

[itsallaboutthegsx]

Although solo2 (racing a clock on a track) has existed in SCCA for many years it was not run in California. You are also correct that in California you had to pretty much have a comp license to run with the SCCA on a track. Luckily there are many more groups, and tracks, to run with out there that catered to exclusively street cars. I am also originally from Southern California. In other regions of the country solo2 has existed and allowed people to compete on rode courses with out going wheel to wheel racing. This program did normally require you to attend a certain level of solo (racing in parking lots) events to move up to solo2. And these events are geared towards competing against others, even if it is only there time. NASA has come up with a good program for the entry level driver. I don’t know about NASAs car counts but I believe SCCA has more race run groups than they do which makes it harder to fit in more PDX (HPDE) run groups. We also have an all volunteer corner staff that find it more exciting to watch race cars than the limited passing and there for limited speciation excitement of the standard street cars. We also have to think about keeping them happy.

As for the family environment I find the SCCA in Colorado to be very family oriented. When I first moved here I let my license laps and they bent over backwards to help me get it back and encouraged me to compete in the next event. My wife, 3 year old and 6 moth old are always at the track with me and are met with grate reception. I haven’t run with NASA in Colorado yet so I would be interested in hearing your experience with them.

The mane point I hope people take away from this thread is get out on a track and have fun. Go play with NASA, come play with the SCCA, or any of the other car clubs that rent track time. You don’t have to have the fastest car out there, as long as it is safe to drive, come out and drive it. One of my coworkers use to bring out his bone stock Saturn, and had a great time.

Matt

[Ludachris]

Although solo2 (racing a clock on a track) has existed in SCCA for many years it was not run in California. You are also correct that in California you had to pretty much have a comp license to run with the SCCA on a track. Luckily there are many more groups, and tracks, to run with out there that catered to exclusively street cars. I am also originally from Southern California. In other regions of the country solo2 has existed and allowed people to compete on rode courses with out going wheel to wheel racing. This program did normally require you to attend a certain level of solo (racing in parking lots) events to move up to solo2. And these events are geared towards competing against others, even if it is only there time. NASA has come up with a good program for the entry level driver. I don’t know about NASAs car counts but I believe SCCA has more race run groups than they do which makes it harder to fit in more PDX (HPDE) run groups. We also have an all volunteer corner staff that find it more exciting to watch race cars than the limited passing and there for limited speciation excitement of the standard street cars. We also have to think about keeping them happy.

As for the family environment I find the SCCA in Colorado to be very family oriented. When I first moved here I let my license laps and they bent over backwards to help me get it back and encouraged me to compete in the next event. My wife, 3 year old and 6 moth old are always at the track with me and are met with grate reception. I haven’t run with NASA in Colorado yet so I would be interested in hearing your experience with them.

The mane point I hope people take away from this thread is get out on a track and have fun. Go play with NASA, come play with the SCCA, or any of the other car clubs that rent track time. You don’t have to have the fastest car out there, as long as it is safe to drive, come out and drive it. One of my coworkers use to bring out his bone stock Saturn, and had a great time.

Matt
Good info Matt. I was just trying to make it clear that for NASA, there is no prerequisite for attending any track event like there is for all SCCA track events outside of the PDX stuff. The HPDE programs are great for newcomers and those who just want to drive fast but have no interest in competing, or being on the track with people who are competing. HPDE is a lot like running test and tune for most people.

The NASA car counts in the race groups out here are less than the HPDE, but that's expected due to how young the org is out here. In NorCal, the car counts in the race groups are usually equal to or larger than the HPDE groups.

When I talked of the "family" environment, I was mostly comparing my experience out here with NASA and SCCA Solo events since I haven't been to a SCCA track event yet. I think part of that family atmosphere is due to the fact that half the people are there for fun, not to compete. At SCCA events, everyone is there to compete much of the time, which tends to create a different vibe among the participants - just a personal observation that not everyone will share or care about. But I've heard that same sentiment expressed by people who have participated with both groups. It's not necessarily a good thing or a bad thing, just different I suppose.

One of the cool things about NASA in relation to DSMs are the classes. The new Performance Touring class is great for road racing DSMs in NASA. Before that, like in SCCA Solo, modified DSMs are thrown into the highest class and were almost never competitive. Is there a similar class in SCCA? I haven't looked into it much. I know classing is always an issue for us.

Hope that's somewhat informative. I know that many people out here are not familiar with NASA and how it works. And I can help answer questions for them.

[itsallaboutthegsx]

You can run a turbo DSM in ITE-U. Out here we have ITE-U and ITE-O which is based on engine displacement of over or under 3 liters. There is a 1.4 multiplier for turbo cars but that still putts the DSM in ITE-U. The modifications are where it can get sticky. They are all regulated but suspension is pretty free. The engine modifications are more regulated than suspension. This class has the possibility of being a big money class so that leaves me out.

You can run a non turbo in ITA. This is a much more regulated class.

If you want to go racing in the national level there is a new class called Super Touring. This class was designed for ex world challenge card but the DSM is classed in STO. As in the IT classes if you are building a car you have to build it to meat the rules.

I chose to not run a DSM as it is a very expensive car to race. My budget fit much better with a Spec7 that you can pick up for around $3000. And race for many seasons with out worrying about wearing things out, other than brakes and tires. I also had one of these cars pass my 450HP DSM at Buttonwillow in California. I was much faster in the strait, as they only have 115HP, but I was no match in the corners. Now my car was on street tires and I didn’t drive it any ware as hard as I drive my race car.

For anyone that is interested all the rules and car classing can be found in the GCR at http://scca.org/documents/Club%20Rules/09%20GCR/2009GCR.pdf .

[Ludachris]

You can run a turbo DSM in ITE-U. Out here we have ITE-U and ITE-O which is based on engine displacement of over or under 3 liters. There is a 1.4 multiplier for turbo cars but that still putts the DSM in ITE-U. The modifications are where it can get sticky. They are all regulated but suspension is pretty free. The engine modifications are more regulated than suspension. This class has the possibility of being a big money class so that leaves me out.

You can run a non turbo in ITA. This is a much more regulated class.

If you want to go racing in the national level there is a new class called Super Touring. This class was designed for ex world challenge card but the DSM is classed in STO. As in the IT classes if you are building a car you have to build it to meat the rules.

I chose to not run a DSM as it is a very expensive car to race. My budget fit much better with a Spec7 that you can pick up for around $3000. And race for many seasons with out worrying about wearing things out, other than brakes and tires. I also had one of these cars pass my 450HP DSM at Buttonwillow in California. I was much faster in the strait, as they only have 115HP, but I was no match in the corners. Now my car was on street tires and I didn’t drive it any ware as hard as I drive my race car.

For anyone that is interested all the rules and car classing can be found in the GCR at http://scca.org/documents/Club%20Rules/09%20GCR/2009GCR.pdf .
That's pretty similar to NASA I suppose. There is Performance Touring, which is great for less modified and stock DSMs. Then the next step up for more modified DSMs would be Super Touring and then Super Unlimited. The latter is the class that Greg Collier won a couple years in a row recently in his Laser RS Turbo. He was running against some very pricey cars - one of which was owned/driven by the owner of Axis wheels. Those are all race groups though. Time Trials is classed a bit differently.

The only race groups in NASA RM right now that have a decent car count though is 944 Spec, American Iron, and Camaro Mustang Challenge.

I wonder how competitive DSMs are in the SCCA classes. Not many DSMers that discuss road racing on DSMtuners talk about racing in SCCA. It seems NASA is the org of choice around the nation for DSMers, or at least for the ones on DSMtuners - which has the largest group of DSM road racers I've found online in one place so far. What other types of cars would the DSM be racing against typically in ITE-U Matt?

[itsallaboutthegsx]

The SCCA has not been very turbo friendly which is probably the biggest reason that more DSMs are running with NASA. NASA also has rules based more on power to weight than car prep. This means you can do anything to the car as long as it fits into the power to weight ratio that is listed. There are good and bad points to this type of rules, just as there are good and bade points to the car classing that happens in the SCCA.

There are not many cars that run in ITE in Colorado. The only car I know of in ITE-U in this regain is a Starion but he has not run sense he blew his turbo a while back. ITE stands for Improved Touring Everything else. So anything that dose not fit in the other IT categories fits into ITE. In Colorado they separated it so the cars with less displacement weren’t running with the Vets and Vipers. Not as if that would mater with the DSMs. A few years back John Muller built and supported an EVO that was running in ITE in the NorCal reign. This car spanked all of the Vets and Vipers it was running against. This was with a rooky driver also.

In non turbo form I don’t know if there has been anyone to fully develop the car. I think it could be a fears contender but in the SCCA people tend to pick the weapon that is a proven winner. I know of one nt DSM on the east cost for sale. If anyone wants to buy it I would love to make it fast with you.

[BlueVelocity]

Yep, Dave Casswell (?) classed my car as ITE-U when he assigned my log book to me.

This is going to be a great year!

Erron S.

[itsallaboutthegsx]

Oh, I forgot about STO. When the Archer Bros were running a Talon in the 90s it was very competitive. How it stacks up against the other world challenge cars I don’t know but I think it will do great. In this class you would be going up against Cadillac SCTV, Corvette, Camaro, Viper Neon SRT4, Mustang, GTO, Solstice, Porsche 996 and 997, and Seleen SR. Sound like easy pickens to me.

Erron, are you going to race with SCCA this year? Not just Time trials? That would be great. If so you will be in 1 of the run groups I will be running in. I will try to get out of your way as you come around to lap me.

[BlueVelocity]

Time Trials for sure, possibly ITE-U as well. It all depends on funding, you know how that goes. Jake is trying to convince me that I just need to pick up a Stohr and run with him. LOL

Erron S.

[Cloud]

Jake is trying to convince me that I just need to pick up a Stohr and run with him. LOL


I can only condone this sort of action. Incidentally one of my design projects about a year ago included trying to make a competitive chassis for dsr. End result: grad students cannot make a competitive chassis for dsport without monetary compensation as incentive haha.

[Ludachris]

Oh, I forgot about STO. When the Archer Bros were running a Talon in the 90s it was very competitive. How it stacks up against the other world challenge cars I don’t know but I think it will do great. In this class you would be going up against Cadillac SCTV, Corvette, Camaro, Viper Neon SRT4, Mustang, GTO, Solstice, Porsche 996 and 997, and Seleen SR. Sound like easy pickens to me.

Erron, are you going to race with SCCA this year? Not just Time trials? That would be great. If so you will be in 1 of the run groups I will be running in. I will try to get out of your way as you come around to lap me.
Yeah, the guy who owns one of the old Archer cars is on DSMtuners. I think he's just doing open track events right now, but it's cool to see that car still hitting the track.

[Paul]

Perhaps I can share some history. NASA was a part of CMC. A track incident ended that. A corner worker at a NASA event ran to the edge of the track (basically). Needless to say this was frowned upon. I am not sure what happened behind the scenes, but that was the last time I saw NASA at CMC meetings.

Certainly the politics are difficult here. CMC was formed by the five clubs. CMC operated Second Creek and provided support for Pueblo and La Junta. CAMA was formed by the CMC (CODSM voted against this) and all the non-original car clubs were left out. I tried to get CODSM into the Multicar club but was unsuccessful (oh sure, but that was the end of it!). There was a little bit of an elitest attitude.

This would be the free week at SC! Open that hood to stay warm.

Paul