Custom EEPROM vs. DSMLink

[mpdeneen]

Hey all.

I recently picked up an eeprom ecu and now I'm trying to decide between a custom eeprom and DSMLink. My ultimate goal is 250-300 awhp on pump gas (honestly, probably closer to 250...) streetable daily driver. I figure to hit those numbers I'll need to run between 18 and 20 psi on a E316g with a front mount and all supporting mods.

I know that DSMLink will be much easier to use, but I am an electrical engineer and hex code does not frighten me and if I go the eeprom route, I intend to get a eeprom burner.

As I see it, pros & cons

EEPROM:
+cheaper
+extended fuel maps
+satisfaction of doing it myself.

-much more difficult
-easier to do severe damage.

DSMLink:
+much easier
+more functionality for future growth
+sophisticated logging

-much more expensive
-standard fuel maps

I know a lot of you have run one or the other and some have run both. What am I missing?

Thanks for any input/advice.

-Mike

[dsm_gsx97]

Burning your own chips is going to be a PIA if you ask me.

DSMLink has all the stock maps rescaled for power which you'll have to do the leg work on to get to that point with your own EPROM. With DSMLink you also have the ability to tune individual sliders at WOT settings. Not to mention timing control, 2stage stutterbox, and a lot of other misc. things. You can tune on the spot with DSMLink and it will update your EPROM with your new settings.

Example:
Your at the track and it's really hot. You need to make some adjustments with your timing and fuel. With DSMLink it takes you 30 seconds to do...with your own EPROMs your screwed until you pull it and reburn new code in it.

[Carl Morris]

Your point about burning chips on the fly is correct, that's not very practical. However, moates.net now has an emulator that you can plug in place of the EPROM chip (about $180) that you can change individual bytes on the fly if you want. Should be just as easy as DSMLink if you're as familiar with the code as the average DSMLink user is with its interface.

Regarding the maps, while DSMLink may come with improved maps, I don't believe that they have yet extended the 1G maps to deal with more than 2.x g/rev. Above that amount (above about 14psi depending on rpm and your VE curve) you are just stuck on the maximum load row of the maps...no more timing can be pulled as boost increases. So, you can tune for max boost, but then you're at less than optimum timing for all points in between 14psi and full boost. Maybe they've added that recently, though, and I'm just not aware of it. I think the 2g supports a somewhat higher limit...they have more rows of numbers anyway :-).

BTW, Mike, for some reason in our conversations I thought you were talking about a 1g. If you are actually talking about 2g, then I'd go DSMLink or buy a 2g chip from DSMChips.com and start working on modifying the 2g code yourself if you're that much of a masochist...we don't have stuff mapped out on the dsm-ecu list for 2g like we do for 1g.

[sbiggi]

I agree with everything Carl said.

Once your tune is pretty good you dont need to be making changes all the time anyways. The only time I pull my chip anymore is when I switch maps.

If you dont want to be pulling chips all the time durring your intial tuning, then get a Ostrich. You can leave it plugged in and change maps and update on the fly.

The other nice thing about doing your own chips is not having to wait a year for a software update. Just make the change your self and your good to go.
If you realy get into the coding, you can pretty much have the ecu do whatever you want.


Also, you mentioned hex code. With TunerPro you have a nice easy to use interface and dont need to be messing with hex code to make normal tuning changes. > TunerPro Screenshot (http://www.awdboost.com/seth/images/tunerpro.jpg)

[mpdeneen]

Thanks everyone.

Carl: It is a 1G, so everything you said applies here.

I don't expect to run race gas often if ever. How often do you need to change maps? How long did it take to dial in your eeprom code? Ultimately, I'd like a setup I don't have to mess with every day...

-Mike

[sbiggi]

Thanks everyone.

Carl: It is a 1G, so everything you said applies here.

I don't expect to run race gas often if ever. How often do you need to change maps? How long did it take to dial in your eeprom code? Ultimately, I'd like a setup I don't have to mess with every day...

-Mike

I only change maps at the track.

Intially it took me alot of changes to get my injector settings correctly, but that was because I had no idea what kind of injectors I have.

I got my brothers and Josh's injector settings set with in two burns. From there its just a few tuning changes for fuel and timing.

[Carl Morris]

I don't expect to run race gas often if ever. How often do you need to change maps? How long did it take to dial in your eeprom code?


Once you've got them where you want them, you never have to change it again unless you want to optimize for different fuel, or you're playing with something complicated like an unknown MAS or speed density. If you use injectors of known size and deadtime, and a MAS with a known compensation table, it should be pretty much a set and forget operation except for whatever decisions you make about whatever A/F ratios and timing you want to run. Unless you're really into optimizing, other people's conservative maps are "close enough". You could just buy a chip with all this stuff in it already done, though?

In my case I messed with it a lot. Partially to work around the VPC, and partially to run as much timing as I could for the pump gas I was running at the time. Other adjustments some people might make frequently while experimenting would be stutterbox rpm or shift light or idle speed or cold start enrichment? It depends on how much people like to fiddle with stuff, I guess.

[mpdeneen]

I like idea of being able to upgrade if I want to. (i.e. larger injectors, etc...) Also, afaik, the dsmchips.com chips do not support extended fuel maps. I've also got no balance shafts, prothane motor mounts and FIAV block off done (although I might un-do this one...), so an increased idle might be nice.

-M

Once you've got them where you want them, you never have to change it again unless you want to optimize for different fuel, or you're playing with something complicated like an unknown MAS or speed density. If you use injectors of known size and deadtime, and a MAS with a known compensation table, it should be pretty much a set and forget operation except for whatever decisions you make about whatever A/F ratios and timing you want to run. Unless you're really into optimizing, other people's conservative maps are "close enough". You could just buy a chip with all this stuff in it already done, though?

In my case I messed with it a lot. Partially to work around the VPC, and partially to run as much timing as I could for the pump gas I was running at the time. Other adjustments some people might make frequently while experimenting would be stutterbox rpm or shift light or idle speed or cold start enrichment? It depends on how much people like to fiddle with stuff, I guess.

[sbiggi]

I like idea of being able to upgrade if I want to. (i.e. larger injectors, etc...) Also, afaik, the dsmchips.com chips do not support extended fuel maps. I've also got no balance shafts, prothane motor mounts and FIAV block off done (although I might un-do this one...), so an increased idle might be nice.

-M

Jeff will do the extended maps if you ask for them.

[fivetodrive]

I relly like tunerpro and my ostrich. It gives you a lot of flexibility and there are many bin's out there to help you. I found some great ones from the canadian DSM web page!

[gsxeclipse92]

Im very sastified with the eprom chip! And seth knows his stuff when its comes to them! His made me two chips, one for pump gas and one for race gas. I was only running like 13.5's with the pump, but as soon as i put the race chip in and he bumbed the timing up i was in the 12's.

[mpdeneen]

Thanks to everyone for their input. I also emailed the folks at DSMLink and in their (very quick...) reply said that they don't currently support extended 1G mapping but will at some point in the future.

Decisions, decisions...

-M

[ocondi]

I have an EEPROM burner if you need to use it. It's an EMP-11 with several SIM cards for different manufactures.

[Paul]

FIAV block off done (although I might un-do this one...),



I have heard this is a bad thing to undo. All kinds of junk will be going in your engine.

Paul

[XakEp]

I have heard this is a bad thing to undo. All kinds of junk will be going in your engine.

Paul

Agreed

[mpdeneen]

I have heard this is a bad thing to undo. All kinds of junk will be going in your engine.

Paul

How do you mean? Going into the coolant or into the combustion chamber? Even if I have the throttle body off to replace the shaft seals & clean it out?

Hmmm.

-M

[Kibo]

Presumably your "block-off" consisted of JB Weld or the like in the passage? Considering how cheap and easy it is to find another 1G throttle body, I personally wouldn't gamble with trying to get all the epoxy out. Then again, I've never done the JB Weld blockoff method, so perhaps it's easier to ensure all epoxy has been removed than I think it is.

[Dane Becher]

How do you mean? Going into the coolant or into the combustion chamber? Even if I have the throttle body off to replace the shaft seals & clean it out?

Hmmm.

-M

Honestly I don't see how undoing the FIAV blockoff will cause extra stuff to go through your engine unless you don't remove *all* the blockage (i.e. piece of the blockage breaks loose). It would go into the combustion chamber *if* something went through the FIAV.

I actually prefer having it blocked. It eliminates a very common failure that can cause all kinds of idle probems. Plus you can remove the coolant lines which keeps the TB a bit cooler without have an extended warm-up cycle.:cool:

[mpdeneen]

Presumably your "block-off" consisted of JB Weld or the like in the passage? Considering how cheap and easy it is to find another 1G throttle body, I personally wouldn't gamble with trying to get all the epoxy out. Then again, I've never done the JB Weld blockoff method, so perhaps it's easier to ensure all epoxy has been removed than I think it is.

It was done by a previous owner, so I'm not sure of the quality. It might just be RTV.

I guess I'll take a look when I replace the shaft seals...

-M

[renovatio]

You can block the passage without the use of any epoxy by just putting a small washer under the pluger spring.

[Dane Becher]

You can block the passage without the use of any epoxy by just putting a small washer under the pluger spring.

Even if it's already stuck open? I'm having a hard time picturing how you would get a washer in there without cutting the FIAV housing open or without the risk of the washer comming loose and injesting it. Care to explain the process? I'm curious.

[renovatio]

It has been awhile since I did this but I have not had any problems since.
There is a freeze plug (on some it's just a plate that screws on) on the throttle body I drilled a small hole in it and installed a sheet metal screw so I could pull the freeze plug out. You may want to heat the area around the freeze plug to ease the removal. Once it’s out of the way you will see a threaded plug. This plug is the seat for the fiav plunger. With good pair of needle nose pliers you can back it out. This is the most difficult part of the procedure don't break the plug removing it as I doubt that you can get a new one, once its out you will see the plunger and the spring. You will also see the fiav actuator that is no longer doing its job. Now you can place a washer or two if you don't have a thick enough one under the spring so that when you thread the seat down it will close down on plunger permanently. You will understand what I am talking about (if you decide to try this) when you get there. Then you can either replace the freeze plug with a new one (if you can find one) or you can use a butane torch and solder the screw to the freeze plug to block the hole. I know that this all might sound like a pia but the idle surging was driving me bonkers and lead to this act of disparity and Jerry rigging. However it does work well and my car idles great.