Adjustable Proportioning Valves?

[ocondi]

Any recomendations for a 90 AWD eclipse. I have 6 piston Wilwoods in the front and stock rears. The stock setup must go cause I am burning up the front rotors.
Thanks

[Paul]

What pads are you using?

Paul

[rlarsen]

How much different is the 90 propo valve from the 2G (99) one? I have the same setup with no problems, and I don't think Paul's had a problem with his 95.

[ocondi]

What pads are you using?

Paul
Not too sure. I think they are the Greens? I ordered new rotors but not pads yet.

What kind of pad is recomended?

[Paul]

Greens? If you mean EBC Greens, I didn't know EBC made brake pads for our car. If they are EBC Green pads they would not be hard on the rotors.

Wilwood has a new pad out that I would try. Not sure this is a recommendation since I haven't tried them, but I would like to.

http://brakepads.wilwood.com/01-selection/bp10.html

I would use Wilwood Tan pads for winter and Q pads I think for summer. I still have the Tan pads in. I notice they don't make them anymore.

Every had any pad fade? What is your driving style? Fast & furious with hard braking? This may help you decide the proper pad also.

Don't change the proportioning valve. Thomas Dorris did and I think to his detriment. The fronts do most of the work. Just get the proper brake pad for your driving style. I actually bought a FWD valve thinking of replacing mine. Instead I just put Porterfield R4-S pads on the rear when racing. On the street the stock pads did fine, but I have vented rear rotors also so not sure what might work for you.

Paul

[ocondi]

Thanks for the info Paul. Since 2nd Creek is gone, no F & F w/ hard braking. Just the random 130-55 on the public roads. I'll try the new wilwood's since they are a medium friction pad.

[Paul]

Let me know how you like them.

Paul

[Kibo]

I'm not sure what you mean by "burning up the front rotors", but when I had EBC Greens they would leave hot spots and cementite all over the rotors during "spirited" driving. I would not recommend them to anyone.

[ocondi]

I'm not sure what you mean by "burning up the front rotors", but when I had EBC Greens they would leave hot spots and cementite all over the rotors during "spirited" driving. I would not recommend them to anyone.

YES! There are hot spots as well as cracking!

[Paul]

There is cracking and then there is cracking. I usually get some small cracks in the rotors. Obviously big cracks are bad.

I ran EBC Green pads on crossdrilled rotors on the Red 96 with no trouble. Not sure I would suggest this for hard braking from 135 to 55 mph. If you do this more than once it will require a good race pad to hold up.

Very important that you properly bed the new pads and rotors.

How thick are the rotors?

Paul

[ocondi]

How thick are the rotors?
Paul

They are .81" thick.

[BlueVelocity]

They are .81" thick.

ROFL!
Sorry Mark, that was funny!

The cracks you are seeing, are they little hairline cracks? Those are somewhat normal for repeated hard braking. Got a pic by chance?

A good thing to remember a wise man once told me. The higher the CF of the pad, the better the stopping power. The trade off is heat and destruction to the rotor. The rotor after all is a big heat sink. There are some that say they are "easy" on the rotor with higher CF's, but those are usually the guys braking at the 100 foot mark and not the 75. :D

Erron S.

[ocondi]

ROFL!
Sorry Mark, that was funny!

The cracks you are seeing, are they little hairline cracks? Those are somewhat normal for repeated hard braking. Got a pic by chance?

Erron S.
Here are some pics. Notice the cracks are on the outer holes and the hairline is in the center of the rotor.

[BlueVelocity]

Ok, yeah, those are just hairline cracks. Not too concerned with those. Keep an eye out to see if they spread to the edges of the rotor. Just a little overtemping, which I call good use of the rotor.

Erron S.

[Paul]

There are some that say they are "easy" on the rotor with higher CF's, but those are usually the guys braking at the 100 foot mark and not the 75. :D



Taking it easy with a high CF pad will just wear the rotor out quicker since they never heat up.

At .81 the rotors are brand new almost. Normally I would ask if you measured in more than one spot, but I will skip that for now especially since they are not close to replacement width (thickness for Erron). :) For future reference you should replace the rotors at around .76.

I hope you didn't order crossdrilled rotors? If so, exchange them.

I certainly agree with Erron. A little higher CF pad will fix the hot spots as long as you don't feel vibration in the pedal. The small crack from the crossdrilled hole to the outside edge would bear watching. I certainly wouldn't replace them unless you have pedal vibration. Even with a little higher CF pad they last a year or two.

Paul

[ocondi]

I certainly wouldn't replace them unless you have pedal vibration. Even with a little higher CF pad they last a year or two.
Paul

There is serious pedal and steering vibration. I think this was caused by the bolts on the hat that got loose from the rotor.

[Paul]

There is serious pedal and steering vibration. I think this was caused by the bolts on the hat that got loose from the rotor.

I doubt it?

Paul

[ErikW]

My talon has been a real gem. I have received many compliments on how well my car stops. Some of it has to do with how you use your breaks. I use them heavy but in a progressive petal pressure sort of way when I can. I also pay real close attention to their condition during their life. I don't have break fade issue at bandi or the street because I never use them heavy, consistently. So the brakes cool off nicely before I get on them again.
I found that Axiss Metal Masters pads and cross drilled work well for me on both front and back. Pads are dusty, but mainly in the front. I have not replaced my rear cross-drilled rotors in many years. There is hair line cracks now, but they have a lot of heavy track and street miles on them.
As for the front rotors. They got replaced a couple years ago with a full surface stock rotor. As it's been said before, it's heat that kills you. I don't allow them to build up heat with repeated heavy use, so the full surface allows me to break hard when I need them and potentially last for a while.
As for hard track use, that's a different matter. For me I'd use a good brand cross-drilled or slotted. I chose a slotted for the fronts now and would do a slightly hotter pad for it's use. That way they can handle it's function better.

1. Real high performance = very low mileage but awesome breaking only when driven real hard to get to operating temps. Only for track

2. Higher performance = less mileage on them. Must warm them up first to be affective. Mostly for track

3. Little lower perf.= much more miles but with break dust. For some light track use.

4. Stock performance = most amount of miles if driven lightly but performance sucks. Never any track use unless you are planning on replacement soon.

I'm in the performance level of 3, maybe 2. Level 1 would be more like a professional level.

Since I have the 1g. I upgraded to the dual piston style long ago. If I were to improve things, I would first look at my driving/racing style and go from there.
My next move to better braking would be whatever it takes to keep the existing 2 & 3 level setups cool. So I am planning on ducting and a pad shim for shielding the heat from the calipers.

[ErikW]

QUESTION: I'm experiencing a repeat situation of pulsating brakes, just after one year of new pads and rotors. Could this be a caliper issue?
This is with my 4Runner. But breaks are breaks.

[BlueVelocity]

I'd have to slightly disagree with #1, but with cavets. With my experience with both the Pagid's and Porterfield R4-E's, they were like stones. Like 2 pieces of granite superglued to a backing plate.(both were of carbon/kevlar composites) They lasted forever. I got an entire season of racing from the Pagids. They are made to get super hot and not turn to peanut butter. Both sets were the higher temp endurance pads. They did require more pedal pressure than a conventional pad, but when they got hot, look out. You'd be embedded into the harnesses. These bad boys would squeak something awful too, like a stone being rubbed against a rotor under light braking. lol

Erron S.

[Paul]

I'd have to slightly disagree with #1,

Erron S.

As long as you run race pads at race temps they will last a long time. Of course if you run race pads on the street, the rotors will not last very long. One summer I didn't change the race pads out and the rotors were worn out in two months of daily driving.

Brakes <Grins at Erik> on the 4Runner will probably need new rotors. You can turn 'em once and see if they hold up, but less than 50% (very accurate percentage applied) chance they will. Those hot spots on the rotor are standing proud.

Paul

[ErikW]

Yeah... I was thinking that #1 was debatable. But then each level is as long as you are misusing the brakes or have a bad combo.
I was really thinking the Portifileds and such would fall in the top end of #2 catagory. I was thinking that #1 was more like carbon fiber rotors with 13 piston calipers or something like that. :p I hear that carbon fiber rotors hold up forever because they do not heat up. That would be cool. (pardon the pun)

Paul. I replaced my rotors AND pads the first time because of the warped/pulsating break petal. I now have to do this again if I want to get rid of it.

Maybe the pads are what's causing the this? I torque the lugs evenly with a torque wrench. And I don't drive it that hard.

I've never heard about a suspension causing this, but could a worn shock cause a ripple affect under breaking at a certain speed/load and cause this to begin?

I wonder if my caliper/s' bolts are not as tight as they should be and is causing some shifting during breaking. I don't hear any thumping, nor do I notice any movement when I take the wheel off to examine. So what else could it be? ... Maybe the wrong pad material for the rotors?. ... I got them both from the same Auto Zone store. Both being a standard OE replacement.

I think the rotors may have a warrantee of sorts. I gotta see if it was a 1yr or a 6month.

It may be worth saying... But I don't believe anyone would want to turn a rotor anymore.

I never turn a rotor because of hot spots or because of any other metal weakening possibilities (examp. cracking) that could have occurred that turning can't totally take out.

[D Walker]

I have personally had great success with Performance friction pads. I highly recommend the 97 or 01 compounds for street/track use. I have had horrible experiences with Hawk pads outside of the auto-x or street car. Pagid Orange pads are good, but do not have the life of the PFC pads and IMHO do not release as cleanly and are much more sensitive to heat. Example: on a Porsche Club F Stock class 944 Turbo running 1:15's at SCR the Pagids were gone in two weekends. The PFC's lasted all year and gave a slightly better-1:14.9 to 1:15.2-ish laptimes. The PFCs tend to be much more predictable and again in my experience, more confidence inspiring for a driver. I have heard but not tested that Wilwoods newest compunds are on par with the PFC and Pagid offerings.

[Paul]

It may be worth saying... But I don't believe anyone would want to turn a rotor anymore.



I still turn the rotors if I can find a machine shop to do it. If you do it to the 4Runner rotors and the pulsing stops you know what the problem was and when it starts again you know you need new rotors. I would get a better brake pad. Coming down from the mountains can be hard on brakes.

Paul

[Paul]

The PFCs tend to be much more predictable and again in my experience, more confidence inspiring for a driver. I have heard but not tested that Wilwoods newest compunds are on par with the PFC and Pagid offerings.

Perhaps the confidence part resulted in the better lap times.

Paul