Clutch not disengaging

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

Just installed a new racing clutch, and the clutch won't disengage. I bled the slave cylinder, and the adjustment screw on the clutch pedal is threaded all the way out. Any suggestions?

[6-Bolt]

What clutch did you install? Also, did you have SS lines in place, instead of stock lines?

You could try to get a longer rod for the slave cylinder.
http://www.maperformance.com/dsm-extended-clutch-slave-cylinder-rod-ex.-clutch-slave-rod.html

[scooby]

Bleed it again

[sbiggi]

Slave rod wont do anything, it doesnt allow more throw.

Is the pivot ball shimmed?

[Dane Becher]

Jon,

Are you sure you bled out all the air, and didn't suck any back in? I like to use a small piece of hose attached to the bleeder nipple and submerge the other end in a cup of brake fluid. That way you can see air bubbles come out and you won't suck (much) air back in if you don't close the nipple quick enough.

The key to bleeding is to close the bleeder nipple long before your helper pulls the clutch pedal back up. And keep an eye on the reservoir; don't let it get close to empty.

Did you put in a new clutch fork and pivot ball? Did you resurface the flywheel (i.e. is the flywheel step correct)? Are you sure you installed the disk in the right direction? Did you get all the tranny bolts in and torqued down? Did the t/o bearing slide smoothly on the tranny and not bind up?

Unfortunately a longer slave rod won't help unless your slave cyl is at the end of it's travel. By that time the piston would fall out of the cyl and leak fluid.

(sorry if this is a repeat of what others said, I got tied up with that "work" stuff:rolleyes:)

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

I made sure I closed the slave cylinder bleeder valve when it was still under positive pressure so it wouldn't suck extra air in. I'll probably rebleed it tonight just to make sure.

New pivot ball? No. Fork? No. Fly wheel has been milled and has the correct step, clutch disk is installed in the right direction. Tranny bolts are all torqued down. The throwout bearing has been replaced and is engaging smoothly.

I have stock clutch lines still in place, this is the clutch kit I got: http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Stage-1-Clutch-Set-Zoom_20330009-P_2139_R%7CGRP60006_282242760___

It's a Zoom racing stage 1 clutch.

The pedal feels like it needs about 3" more of travel to fully disengage the clutch.

What's this about pivot ball shimming? Can I do the pivot ball without re-droppping the trans?

[Dane Becher]

New pivot ball? No. Fork? No. Fly wheel has been milled and has the correct step, clutch disk is installed in the right direction. Tranny bolts are all torqued down. The throwout bearing has been replaced and is engaging smoothly.

What's this about pivot ball shimming? Can I do the pivot ball without re-droppping the trans?

I've never heard of a Zoom clutch. After a bad experience with a no-name brand once, I will always opt for a known good brand (i.e. ACT).

Did you have disengagment issues on your old clutch?

What's the correct flywheel step? ;) Did they measure it for you before you left the shop? I hate to say it but sometimes they get the step wrong...

You have to drop the tranny to shim the pivot ball (washer underneath the pivot ball). Sometimes this helps, sometimes it makes matters worse. I shimmed mine, but clutch still disengages right near the floor.

I usually bleed mine at least 1 full reservoir, usually more, obvously refilling before it goes empty.

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

I checked around on Zoom before I bought it and they have nothing but good reviews.

I did NOT have disengagement issues at all on my old clutch, and it worked perfectly.

I don't have a clue what the correct flywheel step is, but the shop milled it and didn't have any issues milling it all, so I'd GUESS they're right. I guess I can check it when I install the pivot ball stuff....

I bled mine two full reservoirs, so it should be thoroughly bled. I'm gonna take a closer look at it tonight and see if I can get away with using a longer push rod tonight.

If I do have to drop it this weekend... would anyone like to help? There's food involved :D

[sbiggi]

You can pretty much tell if you need to shim the pivot ball by looking at where the release fork is sitting in the hole on the bell housing.

The release fork should be at minimum in the middle or slightly towards the slave cylinder for best.

If its to the left away from the slave cylinder, you need to shim the release fork, or the release fork is bent/worn.

[Dane Becher]

If I do have to drop it this weekend...

If it comes to that, do yourself a favor before hand - go buy a new clutch fork, pivot ball, and a washer that fits the pivot ball. Your old one may have been good enough for your old clutch, but an upgraded clutch might have problems with the old worn parts. Cheap insurance IMO.

Does the clutch slip *at all* if you put it in first gear, hold the clutch down to the floor and attempt to start the car?

No leaks in the clutch line anywhere?

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

The plan was to buy those parts before I did this, assuming upgrading the push rod tonight doesn't work or can't be done.

I can't even get the car in gear when the engine is running, and the garage is a little too small to try to roll it forward on the starter, that makes me nervous to think about trying.

The clutch line is all good and no leaks, so the current game plan is to install the longer push rod and see if that works. If it doesn't, I'll drop the clutch this weekend and install the new clutch fork, pivot ball, and spacer.

[Dane Becher]

I can't even get the car in gear when the engine is running, and the garage is a little too small to try to roll it forward on the starter, that makes me nervous to think about trying.

Then use reverse instead and hold the brake. It will either crank and slip the clutch or it won't crank at all. Worse case it rolls out the door a bit and you push it back in.

My thought is that the PP/disk/FW are somehow stuck together (dirty?) and they just need to have some good force to break them loose.

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

Then use reverse instead and hold the brake. It will either crank and slip the clutch or it won't crank at all. Worse case it rolls out the door a bit and you push it back in.

My thought is that the PP/disk/FW are somehow stuck together (dirty?) and they just need to have some good force to break them loose.

Didn't work. We're gonna make a longer push rod for the clutch slave and try that.

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

Slave rod didn't do it, guess I'm dropping the trans (again) this weekend. Anyone wanna help out? There's pizza involved. PM me.

[cotsi95]

Do you have the adjustment rod all the way extended? If you could be blocking the check valve in the master cylinder. It sounds to me like the step on the flywheel isnt correct. It has to be a very specific step.

Heres a vid jack has on how to adjust your clutch...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYJxQyjIhUw

and how to shim your pivot ball...

http://www.youtube.com/user/jackstransmissions#p/a/u/1/omAw-TgCYzM

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

I've seen both of Jack's videos, and neither one has any new information for me.

The adjustment on the clutch master is fine. When the pedal moves, the cylinder moves and both can fully extend. I didn't adjust it since I took the trans out, so it's not the problem. Either way, I'll be dropping the transmission to install a pivot ball shim and checking the step height of the flywheel to make sure that's right.

[Dane Becher]

OK, so no slippage at all...sounds like the FW step.

A properly shimmed pivot ball will allow more free travel at the bottom of the pedal, but I HIGHLY doubt it will do anything for your issue. You need to be right on the cusp of slightly dragging the clutch at the bottom of the pedal travel for it do make much difference.

When you bolted the PP to the flywheel (disk sandwiched), do you recall where the fingers of the PP ended up after it was torqued down? Were they flat with the flywheel or did the tips of the fingers sink, i.e. tips closer to flywheel than the base of the fingers?

If I recall, on a fresh ACT clutch, the PP fingers were about flat with the FW. Maybe the tips pointed out just a little. It's been a long time but I do not recall the tips being resessed at all.

When you pull this new clutch off, compare the PP, Disk, TO bearing (anything you replaced) to the old part you took off. Make sure they are the same, minus any normal wear on the old part. Just to make sure you aren't using the wrong part for some reason.

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

I'm gonna shim the pivot ball and check flywheel step when I get the trans out and make sure they're both right.

[rodent]

When I bled my clutch, I had to pump the crap out of it before I had someone open the valve to get all the air out. IE- pump, pump, pump, pump, pump, pump, hold down, turn valve open, close valve. Repeat. I also read that speedy bleeders should not be used. Just something else to think about before you tear it apart.

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

When I bled my clutch, I had to pump the crap out of it before I had someone open the valve to get all the air out. IE- pump, pump, pump, pump, pump, pump, hold down, turn valve open, close valve. Repeat. I also read that speedy bleeders should not be used. Just something else to think about before you tear it apart.

We did just that. I laid under the car and my buddy pumped the pedal. I think the problem is that the spring holding the throwout bearing in place came loose, but if either I need it shimmed, or the flywheel step is wrong or any of that, I need to open it up any way. The slave cylinder has plenty of movement, so I really think it's something up inside the bell housing.

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

New clutch master fixed it.

[TerryLiv]

So does this means that the clutch slave cylinder really did not have enough movement?

Terry

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

The clutch master had a bad valve in it and wasn't holding pressure and air kept leaking into the system. i got it replaced and was able to bleed all the air out no problem. I still was having some trouble getting the clutch to disengage, so I started messing with the pedal assembly. I had a loose nut on the end of the clutch (pun ha ha) that I needed to tighten up and then I adjusted the master and it works fine. I'm almost out of thread on the clutch adjustement, but it's working and doesn't engage when I have the pedal to the floor so I'm not too picky. It all works correctly.

[TerryLiv]

If you are engaging too close to the floor, you may find that the clutch drags at higher RPM shifts and it will feel like it takes forever to shift. It doesn't take much in the way of turns to move the engagement up quite a bit. Try one more turn.

Terry

[hubbazoot (aka Jon Lewis)]

It's not dragging, I checked that to make sure and it shifts fine at higher rpm's. It's just a bit closer to the floor than my old clutch and will take some getting used to.