The formula

[cyberslug]

I've heard references to a "formula" for running 12's at this elevation, but I haven't acually seen it. Somebody mind posting it for sticky purposes?

[Carl Morris]

Maybe you're thinking of the combo Steve and Ryan used to try to hit 12.99 on a 14b with a stock intercooler?

Other than that I'm not aware of any particular recipe. For most people you need at least 500cfm worth of turbo, a decent exhaust, IC, and piping, boost control and some race gas. Doing it on pump gas usually requires more injector, some timing control, and more turbo is always good. You can usually make up for not doing one of the above if you do a better job on the other items. What made the high 12 that Steve and Ryan did interesting is that lack of turbo capacity is probably the most challenging thing to work around.

[rigby]

Maybe you're thinking of the combo Steve and Ryan used to try to hit 12.99 on a 14b with a stock intercooler?
around.

I can add some here, but Ryan probably remebers more of it than I do...

The first big thing was to start with a stock 1g dsm that's in pretty much pristine condition mechanically (we called this the stage 0 state IIRC). It's amazing how many people want to start modding a car that's got a lot of problems right off the bat. Anyway, after getting to that state, I think the major methodology/mods were as follows:

0) Gauges & diagnostics: Boost, Fuel pressure, EGT, datalogger.
1) Lighten the car: Removed spare & jack, front bumper, other odds and ends. The car wasn't stripped, front seats and interior panels were intact and it wasn't visibly obvious the car was lightened except for the 2-3" higher it sat up on the springs :) -- very light weight Volk TE-37 wheels
2) Full 3" turbo to tip exhaust w/test-pipe
3) DSS 2.5" upper IC pipe
4) 'Hacked' MAF
5) Hallman MBC
6) SAFC & 550 injectors

And I think that's about it for the most part. Lots of little 'simplification' things that probably didn't add that much (ie: EGR blockoff, removal of emissions canister and stuff, removal of unneeded vac lines, good plug wires)

It was a fun project :)

[Van]

My formula was twelves on pump gas at very full weight with a 50-trim turbo. ;)

[724GVR4]

Don't forget the lighter flywheel and massive porting :D . 14BASIC I think is what they were calling it. I liked following the upgrade path of this project and when you get tired of the 14b you have all the supporting mods for a bigger turbo.

[Jason]

I remember an important part of 14Basic was tire pressure.

Ryan and Steve did multiple launches at Windsor Speedway to determine correct tire pressure for the dragstrip. To much spin? air down. Too little? Increase air pressure.

All done on drag radials and super light Volk wheels.

[cyberslug]

Sorry, I had to leave town in the middle of the conversation. I was asking because my goal is a very reliable mid-12ish (300whp) car. This is my current plan, please feel free to tell me yea, nea, this would be easier, etc.

4g63 2.0 - nice compression, new head, still have BS - already done
Evo3-16g (maybe another 16g, depends on what kind of deal I can get)
Extreme intercooler (the good ebay one) 1g FMIC kit
2G MAS
550 or 660 cc injectors (could use some help deciding)
SAFC (550's) or EPROM and SAFC or DSMLINK (if I can cough up the $$)
NGK plugs and wires - already done
1g logger - already done
innovative LC1 wideband
ACT 2600
walboro 190HP
high flow fuel filter and SS lines from filter to rail
2.5" turbo-back - already done
Joe P MBC

Think that would do it at this altitude and if so in what order should I do this? I don't ever have thousands to just blow, so i need to do a little at a time. I know my turbo is probably next because my 14b has seen better days. Other than that stage 0 is done, I've spent a lot of time/effort/$$$ making sure I'm 100% before I even think about this. Any input/advice would be great.

Thanks

[rlarsen]

I'm pretty sure you'd have no problems running 12's with that setup up here. Some have even run 11's at sea level with similar mods.

One of the keys to our 14b and stock intercooler project was to lighten the car as much as possible, and also remove as much rotational mass as possible (hence the super-light 11.2lbs Volks). Putting the stock wheels back on that car made it feel like a boat anchor was tied to the bumper, it was a huge difference.

[Josh Warriner]

It's sounds like you want to do a lot with a little. A lot of this is driving. Your run has to be perfect. If you have a small turbo you have to beat the **** out of the driveline, no question. Most important parts are the launch and shift to second, which are really almost one smooth motion. Assuming, if you're looking for a simple formula for 12s, you don't have a studder box, you'll want to launch around the 6500 mark and you'll be shifting to second almost immediately without taking your foot off the gas. If you've never done it, it takes practice.

If I wanted to run "easy" 12s I'd try this:

Perfectly running car with 5 degrees base timing
Pull as much weight out of the car as your comfortable with
Use race gas
NGK plug wires
NGK BPR7ES plugs
Boost Gauge

K&N
2G MAS/Hacked 1G MAS
3" Intake pipe
3" Exhaust
16G or similar (Big, EVO3, 18G)
MBC
550s
Walboro 255
AFC
Modded 1G BOV

Some of that stuff is probably not even needed. But in my case, if my goal was 12s it would be solidly in the 12s, not one 12.9999999999999 (no offense Ryan and Steve, I know the car broke).

If you wanted to go a step further I'd add:

FMIC
660 Injectors
ACT2600
EPROM

[rlarsen]

Hey it was a 12.97. :rolleyes:

But yeah, solidly in the 12's wasn't going to happen at 6,000ft. with a 14b and the stock intercooler. Not without a lot more money anyway.

Anyone who can't run good 12's with a 1G and a 16g needs to learn how to drive, or figure out what's wrong with their car.

[Kibo]

Anyone who can't run good 12's with a 1G and a 16g needs to learn how to drive, or figure out what's wrong with their car.
That's a pretty bold statement to make--what about supporting mods? I doubt a bone-stock 1G in perfect shape with a 16G could make it solidly into the 12's (let alone at all) at this altitude. :rolleyes:

[rlarsen]

I didn't mean a 16g on an otherwise bone-stock car, obviously. I meant a setup similar to the one Josh posted. 16g, stock intercooler, basic intake, exhaust, fuel, nothing fancy.

I don't think a bone stock 1G with nothing but a 16g would even be faster than a bone stock 14b car.

[Carl Morris]

I don't think a bone stock 1G with nothing but a 16g would even be faster than a bone stock 14b car.

I can vouch for that. My 14b died before I could get my car to the track, so I put a 16g on it and took it to the track bone stock other than the 16g. Ran a best of 16.0@81 until I started doing tricks like popping out the BCS restrictor. And yes, I knew how to launch a turbo car...although I didn't have the guts to do a 7500rpm rev limiter launch like I would now if I were in the same situation. That would have gotten me mid-15s :-).

[Kibo]

I didn't mean a 16g on an otherwise bone-stock car, obviously. I meant a setup similar to the one Josh posted. 16g, stock intercooler, basic intake, exhaust, fuel, nothing fancy.

I don't think a bone stock 1G with nothing but a 16g would even be faster than a bone stock 14b car.
I knew that's not what you meant...just wanted to clarify the point that it takes more than just a 16G to hit 12s. ;)